The Good Intentions Podcast
Good Intentions connects with experts and storytellers around social impact, psychology, mindfulness, personal growth, and health.
Each conversation unpacks the beliefs and rituals that drive and ground each guest. You will hear about achievements that go beyond the conventional and tangible to a deeper level, finding the meaning and intention behind what we do.
I believe that there is a deep longing in our culture and society for something more: something higher, something deeper. Material possessions and technology do not satisfy our souls. As human beings we long for connection.
I'm on a mission to spread positivity, drive connectivity and to inspire others to live a more meaningful life.
The Good Intentions Podcast
Ep 25 - Making Big Life Changes and the Power of Learning - Louise Nichol
Louise Nichol fell in love with Dubai when she moved here in 2005. Originally from the UK, you probably know her best as editor of fashion magazines Grazia Middle East and Harper’s Bazaar Arabia.
Most recently Louise has made a career switch to indoor cycling instructor and can be found leading legendary and much sought after classes at Crank.
Her impossibly glamorous life always fascinated me and I couldn’t wait to talk to her about her experiences in the world of publishing, how she balances raising three children with a career and how she manages to stay grounded - especially when surrounded by the glitz and celebrity of the magazine world.
Louise is warm, candid and down to earth and I loved her take on life in Dubai, making big career changes and bold choices whatever age you are and how to find connections and community. Last but not least, I loved our conversations around wellness and taking responsibility for our own health.
Louise says: It’s humbling, terrifying and life-affirming to start from scratch at the bottom, to go from being the most experienced to the least. The power of learning is truly formidable.
I learned so much from my conversation with Louise and I know you will too. Please do enjoy it.
Follow me, and the Good Intentions podcast:
https://www.instagram.com/kellyharvarde/
Find Louise Nichol here:
https://www.instagram.com/louisenichol/
https://www.louisenichol.com/
Read more about Heroes of Hope and their great work here:
https://www.instagram.com/heroes_of_hope_/
Immerse yourself in some of the books we discussed:
JRR Tolkien - Lord of the Rings
https://magrudy.com/book/the-lord-of-the-rings-9780618645619/
Justin Cronin - The Passage
https://magrudy.com/book/the-passage-9780752883304/
Robin Hobb - Assassin's Apprentice
https://www.amazon.ae/Assassins-Apprentice-Farseer-Trilogy-Book/dp/000756225X
Welcome to good intentions, the podcast where we explore the world around us to find meaning and intention in what we do. I'm Kelly Harvard, and I'm on a mission to spread positive stories that will inspire you to live a more meaningful and connected life. Louise hol fell in love with Dubai. When she moved here in 2000, originally from the UK, you probably know her best as editor of fashion magazines, gratia, middle east, and Harper's bizarre Arabia. Most recently, Louise has made a career switch to indoor cycling instructor, and she can be found in leading legendary. Most recently, Louise has made a career switch to indoor cycling instructor, and she can be found leading legendary and much sought after classes at crank her impossibly glamorous life. Always fascinated me and I couldn't wait to talk to her about her experiences in the world of publishing, how she balances raising three children with a career and how she manages to stay grounded, especially when she was surrounded by the glitz and the celebrity of the magazine world. Louise is warm, candid and down to earth. And I loved her take on life and making big career changes and bold choices, whatever age you are and how to find connections in community last but not least. I loved our conversations around wellness and taking responsibility for our own health. Louise says it's humbling, terrifying, and life affirming to start from scratch at the bottom to go from being the most experienced to the least the power of learning is Tru formidable. I learned so much from my conversation with Louise, and I know you will too. Please do enjoy it. Thanks so much for joining me today, Louise. Really happy to have you on, I think you're my first conversation of the new year in 2022. So that's really
Speaker 2:Exciting. I know. Thanks Kelly. Oh,
Speaker 1:Super. So I wanted to start at the very beginning. I believe you've lived in the UAE for now. I think it's 16 years wanted to write almost 20 and that kind of PR way of ramping it up. But I mean, you've lived in the UAE for a long time. What brought you here? What, what's your story?
Speaker 2:I think it was that I came and I actually came to work for Emirate women magazine. So I'd been a journalist in the UK for maybe five years working for business to business, fashion title, which was amazing. And it was an incredible learning experience. And in the way that London journalism is you get thrown straight in my contacts were sort of Philip Green and you know, these Tysons of industry in the retail, in the fashion retail world. And once you've been sworn up by Philip Green every day for five years, you can face the world, right? There is nothing that is gonna intimidate you anymore. And it was a great kind of trial by fire into proper journalism. So I love that, but it was also when you're in London, you're not going anywhere in those roles. It's very people don't leave. It's very hard to move because I'd gone into business journalism. It was very hard to make the switch into consumer. And while the business is a fantastic training ground and actually it's so much harder and requires so much more skill and it really gives you a great grounding in journalism. I really wanted, I'm not gonna lie. I wanted the fluffy side of the fashion and the fun. So an opportunity rose in Dubai, a previous colleague of mine had already had come to Dubai to work for one of the marketing titles. And I kind of watched him and see how he thrived and had this amazing life and great opportunities professionally. So that had kind of put it onto my race. And then when the Emirates women opportunity came up, I did all the tests and things and, and kinda got off of the job and came out for
Speaker 3:That. Brilliant. So, and when you came, you were foot loose and fancy free. You were Sawm family at that point or were you no,
Speaker 2:I was single like 20 mid to late twenties, somewhere around there, such
Speaker 3:A Dubai story, isn't it. And we, we come with like a suitcase and the couple of bikinis, and then, you know, you, you fast forward and you've got dogs and cats and children and all sorts coming out of your ears.<laugh> no, its
Speaker 2:A whole, you know, living in bird, Dubai and golden Sams and oh did you? Yeah. You know, there was be man and WY that, that was it. I mean, I remember more of the Emirates opening, so clearly forget that you Dubai more. I remember all of the E and being like, wow, who's gonna come to this giant place and now you gonna Friday, you can't park
Speaker 3:<laugh> yeah, I remember um, the whole golden Sams thing we drove through, we were going to, um, bird Dubai the weekend. We love bird Dubai and I think there's golden Sams 15 or something now. And we were like, what? There only used to be what? And now they've built so many more golden sands. It's like, it's incredible.
Speaker 2:It might been, I'm not sure I was in a high number.
Speaker 3:Amazing, amazing.
Speaker 2:And then, you know, you know what it's like, it's you just send me you a student again, but you got a bit of cash and you know, it's that, that lifestyle is so much fun in your twenties. At that time it was crazy. And Tim on his roller DJ, it was like going back to uni, but this time having a bit of money spent,<laugh> not a lot, but
Speaker 3:Shout out to Tim on his roller skates. I believe he still does roller skate. Occasionally I uh, I see him on Instagram roller. Not sure about the DJ. Yeah. Fun times. I, when I see people coming now in their twenties, I feel a little bit nostalgic, but I feel super excited for people. They come now still. I mean, Dubai's very different now and in some ways I think, oh, it's a shame. You didn't see it as it was to see the journey, but obviously it's still got, you know, it's still got a great journey that it's on, but mainly I just feel, yeah, I feel super happy for people when they're coming. Cause I think you've got this whole experience now in this incredible place. Some sometimes I'd like to go back and do it again, but um, you know, obviously happy with how I am now. Um, and you've stayed. I mean you've stayed long time. You're here a little bit longer than me and we've both stayed in this incredible place. What is it about the UAE that you love? What made you stay? What makes it such a special place to be for you? Obviously
Speaker 2:There were lots of career progressions and the journey kind of kept me here, I suppose, in terms of professional opportunities and then personal, I met my husband here. I met him in and this is a very Dubai story. I met him at the Athlon hot 100.<laugh> brilliant,
Speaker 3:Which is
Speaker 2:About as Dubai as it gets. I think we had kinda mutual friends in common. One of his friends was in the Athlon hot hundred. He was a triathlete. I was there for work. Cause I was at this stage had moved to ICP and was working for GRA. So we were introduced and you know, one thing led to another amazing. Yeah. So it's just that kind of, there's never been a good reason to go back and to be honest now more than ever there, isn't, I'm very aware of what that would mean for our kids, for our lifestyle, for probably our personal happiness. To be honest with you, if it comes down to it, I think we're really happy and content here. And while there is that draw of the UK and if you go back in the summer, we haven't been for a few years. Cause of COVID you have an incredible time in July when you're not working and the sun's out and your friends are around. I'm very, it's like in February when it's dark at 3:00 PM and it's raining and it's miserable and there's taxes and there's, you know, public transport to deal with. So I think you do see that from people that go back or go home, it's a big culture shock and you have to be really ready for that. And I know that I'm not. And I know that my kids aren't, even though they, they complain about the cold. Now it's 24 degrees.
Speaker 3:Louis. My daughter went to school this morning with gloves, earmuffs, a jumper and a scarf. And she was still telling me that she was cold. And I mean, yeah, it was, I mean, there was a nip in the air, but it's a divine nip. It's not a not,
Speaker 2:They're not in the UK, right?
Speaker 3:No. Yeah. I, you, the weather is one of the many, many issues and I know we often get leveled at us as expats and, and you know, raising kids here, sometimes people say, you know, you're raising them in a bubble. You know, my mom and dad were here recently and they were chatting about some of the UK news and you know, mentioning the word stabbing of someone had been stabbed. And my daughter actually said, what's stabbed sort of this whole, the whole room sort of went quiet. And then when she'd gone to bed, my parents were like, we, you know, you're gonna have to tell her about these things. She's gonna need to know about these things. And I was like, yeah, well she's eight. Does she need to know yet? And I got quite defensive, but then I thought, you know, am I raising her in a bubble? Should she be more exposed to these things? I mean, what do you think about that? And like how, how kids are raised here as a negative,
Speaker 2:Think that pushes and you think about, and ultimately I think the thing that's been the most powerful for me is looking at people that I know that were raised here, who are incredible human beings. And when it comes down to that, I look at them and I think if my kids grow up to be like you great and they are wonderful and kind, and humane and smart and intelligent and well and not bratty. So I think that's kind of my guiding light that, that I hold onto. And in the meantime, it's great that our kids don't know what a stabbing is. I mean, I don't want them to know and okay, so they go for university or I will deal with that time, but you are right as an eight year old cling on to, for as long as possible. I mean, I'm thrilled that Santa Claus is fully happening in our house with such a passionate belief and you know, that's just incredible. I love that. So the last thing I wanna be thinking about is the violence, the side, you know, it's so sad. And my actually has, to me, she would love than to have the grandchildren that we have here. She has in the, the, but she's to, for them here. And I, I know it's not perfect. And I know that critics will say you are being blind to X, Y, and Z, but it's what feels right for us. And it's what feels right for my kids. So, you know, I'm kinda cool to stick with that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I hear you. I hear you. I'm kind of, yeah. If, if we can avoid talking about stabbings, then I'm kind of like, yeah, let's stay in this bubble for as long as possible. I mean, you know, I don't wanna hear about them and I'm 28 obviously. Um, but yeah, I agree with you on this. So I'm encouraged and it's a very good point about people that have grown up here. I mean, I'm surrounded like in the office, I work and I'm surrounded by Dubai babies. You know, kids that have grown up here, they might have gone to a university in a different country. They're very, you know, they're very well traveled. They're, aerody, they're so dynamic, they're full of ideas. They're brilliant human. So you make a very good point actually about, we are surrounded by people that have grown up here and yet have not disappeared down a whole because they didn't know the word stabbed before they were eight. So I'm gonna take some comfort in that for, you know, super, and you mentioned your job, you know, you came here, you had a variety of super, super jobs, an amazing career working for, you know, some incredible publications. And I have to ask you, and you were editor of half bizarre Arabia and there can't be a celebrity who you haven't met at this stage. And some incredible in people that you've interviewed that you had on the cover. What's your biggest takeaway from dealing with these sort of Uber famous celebrities and what are your thoughts on, on sort of world of celebrity at
Speaker 2:The moment? It's so different, honestly, case by case some of them are so incredible to me and you take it at Charron would, would spring to mind as someone who often the older ones<laugh> were generally the better interview, because they're more confident they're able to have a conversation with you on their own terms. They're not relying on a PR, they're not scared about saying the wrong thing or having an opinion. They have thought and beliefs that they've gained through life experience, and they're happy to put out in the world and, you know, hopefully, maybe help other women through that experience and through those thoughts. So in when you're meeting someone like that, it's very rich and rewarding. Obviously younger stars. I think now it's shifted, but maybe when I was doing it. So over the last 10, five years ago were very media trained. It was very PR I think now you've got the, kind of the more Billy Eish, honest, raw it's flipped again. But certainly there was a period when, when I was there, when it was a lot of media management and that's just no fun for anyone. I mean the Victor secret angels are the never try and interview a victorious secret angel. They're on the clock for Victoria's secret because you will get nothing you probably wouldn't want to anyway, but that's really banging your head against a brick wall. Cause it's so media trained and it's so party line and it's just commercial. And when it turns into just trying to sell products or push products, so that's when it does become a bit so destroying. And ultimately that's probably why I fell outta love with it, but there are so many incredible, you know, I was incredibly lucky that my last ever big piece and the one that I chose to went out, I'm very deliberately was queen ran of Jordan. And, you know, I kind of thought from here, you know, I'm done like in the middle east, that's my ultimate person. Did you on a politic, I have a politics degree. So from a political point of view, from a humanitarian point of view, obviously she takes all the fashion stylish, elegant role model that is required to hit those fashion magazine parameters,
Speaker 3:Such an icon. I remember that interview very well at the time and all the attention that they got quite rightly. And yes, I can only imagine what it's like to sort of be in somebody like that sort of orbit. And, and just as a woman, you know, aside from the fact of who she is, woman to woman, to sit down with somebody like that must just be absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That, that was incredible on and privilege. It took a lot years to get there years. It, so many battles behind the scenes and getting the, those ducks in a row is like, I mean, it honestly aged me a lot, but for something like that, it's so worth it. Whereas when you feel that you are becoming apiece of a commercial or for then eventually I was kind of with that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I can. I, it joy out it cause you conversations interesting conversations with people and if you feel they're being too, I mean, you know, obviously I work in PR, so I am sometimes the person that is guilty of having to make sure that, you know, your client says the right thing, but yeah, at the same time you want it to be natural and compelling otherwise, no one's gonna listen to it at all. So you kind of defeat the whole object.
Speaker 2:It's at the root of that industry. There is a conflict between the desire to sell stories isn't funded, right? So there are incredible stories that, that we tried to tell every month, but there's no commercial backing from that. And there's increasingly a, a smaller readership cause people don't read long form. And if it's not a Kardashian, they are less interested. You know, if you're talking about some niche artists in area, you know, but the story is so much more rich and it has so much more to give, but it's very hard to get that over commercially in a business way that keeps me and my staff's teams paid. And in a that actually people will engage with and, and read. So it does get very the industry and, and I think that's, I was kind of done with it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I can understand that completely, but you
Speaker 2:Have a great medium for storytelling.
Speaker 3:This is the thing, right? I've always loved podcasts. And you know, that all the research is showing that, you know, that is that they're growing hugely in the UAE and across the world. And it is essentially like long form content, right? It's essentially like, cuz you're sitting down to listen to somebody speak who sometimes you might know who they are. Sometimes you might, but it's a topic that's grabbing your interest or it's a conversation that's making you interested and you know, most podcasts at least half an hour long, some of the shorter ones are they have that format because it's a shorter concept or there's, there's a reason why it's shorter. But yeah, they're usually longer conversations that you can really delve into a subject or it's someone that you wanna hear talk for a longer period of time. So I'm a huge fan of podcast. This is why I love having these conversations. Right. Cause you can kinda delve into them. No, I,
Speaker 2:I love, and it's so intimate when someone's in your audio space. If they're talking to you in your car or if you're a run, you really feel that you know them, which is an incredible way to connect people and to feel connected and feel sort of emotionally tied to someone on the other side of the world. And it's luckily a bit cheaper than doing really expensive fashion shoots in a
Speaker 3:Magazine is no larger entourage that I'm having for
Speaker 2:Makeup Kelly. Thanks time. Thanks time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'll send, I'll send someone, um, I dunno if you've read it, I'm sure you have. I mean obviously Alexandra Schulman, who is the ex editor of British Vogue, she wrote this fantastic book. When I think Vogue was a hundred years old, it was kind of these diaries of her life. And the bit that really interested me, I mean, aside from all the glamor and glitz and behind the scenes stories that she's build, you know, she was a working mother, um, the whole time that she was running that magazine and it was a different time. There was no emails on your phone, then there was no social media. No, she always says she left the office and she left the office, but there's this really great bit where she always describes, she comes home from work each day and she kind of stands on the front step and she takes a minute before she puts the key in the lock because you know, she's had this crazy insane back in those days, you know, maybe dealing with Naomi Campbell or, you know, being on the shoot negotiating with her commercial team, her ultimate editor, editor publishing editor, and then she has to come home and be mom. And I just wondered sort of how you used to balance that. Cause I know you are a working mother as well. You have these three gorgeous kids, I'm a working mom. I'm always really interested to speak to other women about how do you take that, whatever you are doing in the daytime. And especially when it's super, super high octane, like it is working in a fashion magazine sort of coming home and you know, peeling bits of cornflakes off the floor and you know, your kids, my daughter rushes at me when I, so I haven't even put my bags down. I'm literally, and obviously I love it when she does that, but there's this moment where I have to transition, like how did you do that? How did you put hope of that? How did you make that work for you and, and balance those two parts of your life? I think I
Speaker 2:Probably didn't, which is probably also another reason why I kind came to the end of the road with it. There was a, a huge sense of, but bizarre, bizarre is the oldest fashion magazine in the world it's even older than Vogue. So, and when you editor in chief, it's very much imposed upon you that you are carrying the weight of over 150 years of heritage and, and what have you. And that, that weighed quite heavily on me as a person. And I think particularly as it was kind of at the time that social media was starting, you know, I think Alex Schulman was, she's obviously she's older than me and more confident and experienced as well. And therefore very able to separate those things. Whereas I felt a very strong responsibility that I had to personally represent this brand, which maybe isn't actually me. You know, I'm not this incredibly elegant round, the clock, 24 hours a day person who has everything just so and holds dinner parties, you know, lives, this bizarre lifestyle. I don't, that's not, that's absolutely not me at all. So there was a bit of a conflict there. And I think I did feel that I had parti, you know, when you are out in public, you, you're not out as you, as Louise, you're out as the<inaudible> chief of hub, Sara Arabia. And that's a very different thing. And people bring a lot of expectation to that. And a lot of they placed a lot of demands on that. Well, it probably, I never realized this at the time, but I think internally probably was a bit of a conflict for me. I think it's different now. I, and also because social media was coming up, no one really knew how to balance it. And I did feel that I had to maintain this bizarre editor kind of, but whereas actually I'm probably, I'm incredibly clumsy, goofy, scruffy, lazy, you know, messy, not adjective. Like we all are
Speaker 3:A normal human being that I think you are you're describing
Speaker 2:When I sat and you know, had to describe the bizarre reader. These are not adjectives that I would've put on her.<laugh> the ones I, so there was a conflict and I don't think anyone quite knew how to manage the personality side of things in terms of social media, with the brand and that, you know, there's very removed and elegant. I think it's different and people understand that people are people and their individuals and they're not just because, you know, you're the, of a fashion magazine or you are something like this that you can't therefore be your in person. And they're more confident to express individuality. And it doesn't mean that you are damaging a brand in any way per, but I did feel that conflict at times. Definitely. It's hard. You've got kids an event and they're screaming or they're covered in candy. Flos of, you know, they're not looking like the children that we have in. Let me tell you, you know, that it is quite hard to put that aside. Yeah. I can't
Speaker 3:Imagine. I mean, the other day what I was at the event that we were talking about earlier, the other, another an influencer came up and then we were chatting and actually she said, oh, I follow you on Instagram. And you know, I'm just a normal human being. I'm not an influencer, I've got barely zero followers, but she knew me so instantly. I was like, oh, okay. And she was like, oh, you sort, how are your chickens and the cats? And I was like, oh gosh, okay. Yeah, you kind of almost forget. Cause I just kind of do Instagram for like my friends and my family. And then I forget that actually people could be looking. So just thinking, gosh, when I was, I knew I was coming to speak to you. I mean, to be doing that job is one thing. And then now to be doing that job with social media as well, and to kind of always have somebody looking at you, cause yeah, of course I go to spin with no makeup on and in my, you know, scry old gym kit and sweat, of course we do. We're all human rights. So to then, you know, people could be watching you as well. It's it must be a real challenge now for people to kind of live with that lens on them as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I guess everyone is kinda figuring it out and doing what works for them. It's become such a tool for, for any form of professional development in the sphere that we are in. You need it. And I guess it's up to you as to how much you're prepared to put out there and how much you're not and how you frame it and how you shape it. And there are obviously people out there who are incredibly open and put everything out there with zero filter and zero, you know, and that's super cool and amazing if I'm not that brave bothered<laugh> once you've kind of lived that whole fashion glossy, you know, it is still a part of me deep down I've, I'm never gonna not love fashion and not love that glamor. And, and I do still a hundred percent retain that to an extent, but then, and I, I don't really put much kind of raw stuff out there just because it's just not me to do that. I love it when people do. Oh, of course.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think we're all figuring it out and it'll be interesting to see my kids at the moment don't have any interest. They're not bothered. I've tried to get'em to do TikTok zero interest in that. So it'll be interesting to see how they engage with it. I think this generation, you know, the really young ones now coming up.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Very interesting to how it's all gonna develop. I completely agree. I feel like, um, yeah, I mean, TikTok has kind of passed me by I've made a decision that it's just, I'm gonna let it pass me by. I'm happy for it to, I mean, sometimes people will send me things and I'll watch, you know, if it's like cats, skateboarding, cats, or something, I'm always interested in skateboarding, cats, but um, otherwise, so yeah, otherwise I'm like, I'm now I think so. Let's see. I'm sure in 10 years more, a daughter will be on it. So you had, um, a really sort of interesting switch in your life and I loved what you said about it. You said it's, it's really hard to be brave, but it's worth it like resigning from what I always thought was my dream job. Like auditioning to be an indoor cycling instructor after the age of 40. So you left a job, a lot of people would fight to the death for, and I'm interested in sort of what made you touched on it a little bit now, but what made you realize it, wasn't your dream? And then what made you kind of finally take the step to do it because this is a big change and I'm really fascinated in people that make big switches. And I'd love to know more about that. There, there
Speaker 2:Were a lots of factors and yeah, it is the dream job. I mean, there, there are 20 people have that job in the world, maybe roughly, and it is an incredible job and you are certainly externally or, or by the fashion and industry treated like an absolute princess and that's very alluring and very seductive and you are flown around the world business class and you stay in incredible hotels where they try and get you massages. And I hate massages. So I'm always trying not have, like I hate and you are given handbags and shoes, pretty pretty things. And it's when you get into that, it's very hard to end it or to walk away from it. It's very and very alluring and you become part of the cycle that it's absolutely not a deal with the devil, but it's absolutely a deal that you are part of that machine. And then you are in return a tool for these brands to sell more expensive handbags and jewels and shoes and things like that. And for a while, I was called to be that part of that cycle. You know, I was aware of it. I'm certainly not blind to it, but eventually I, I just realized, do you know what? I don't really care about Hamburg and I'm spending so much time traveling. I would go to LA quite a lot and that's even to go and had it down to like one night there, but that's still a week. Pretty much certainly have five days out, Dubai away from kids traveling for 20 hours in each direction. You're making all this money, but you're spending it on the very stuff that you do, you know, like, and so I was like, why am I making money to buy expense the handbags? I, I, don't actually like, you know, I'm kind of conditioning myself to want a lifestyle that I'm promoting and it's all a bit of a cycle. And actually I'm not, if I step back from it and take that allure away and really break it down, which actually COVID helped with, although I had left before them, but that really solidified it. So that was one thing. Obviously, the being at the travel, the being away from kids, the corporate environment, just technically where magazines, whether that's online or print, just the whole concept where they're going, how commercial they are, how they're physically run in terms of the commercial aspect and how little value editorial, pure editorial with zero commercial impact behind it can have nowadays there's very few titles in the world that can really have a true editorial voice, particularly in that sphere where it's very expensive to produce that content, obviously in podcasting, it's different, but the whole social media thing is tough because it means you have bring that that's where the reach is a hundred percent. You know, one influencer can have millions more eyeballs than a copy of a magazine. So you have to harness that and bring it in, but that's tricky as well because they work on digital. They don't work quite so well in print. And it's very hard to go from telling from interviewing queen interview an influencer and, and giving it the same weight and the same currency because the influencer is incredible at what they do on digital in their format. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're gonna make a fantastic 4,000 word deep dive interview. So there was that, and I just felt like I'd come to the, I had fall. I had genuinely fallen out of love with it. So that was certainly why I stepped aside. And the thing that I'd worked so long for, which was to get queen rhino, to agree, to be photographed by us and interviewed by me, it's a pretty incredible footnote to end on. I have say, well, there was no one. She was my ultimate cover. Start from the start for har bizarre Arabia. She was the ultimate personification of everything, particularly at that time for the region. So I kind of thought, well, where to now region, I didn't want to leave Dubai. Didn't want to leave the, you know, we've got such a lovely life here. So I did it. It was quite spar at the moment. I'm not gonna lie. I'm quite impressed with like, I didn't really plan it. I just did it. I just woke up and said, right. I'm resigning.
Speaker 3:Amazing. Well, that was what I was gonna ask you as well. Like how did it happen? And like, do you, cause I'm really interested in what you're saying about, you know, sort of trying to sort of juggle your kind of being sucked into this machine of things that you don't necessarily value, not necessarily your core, all values. Because I think from my conversations, I'm having a lot of people do feel like this. You know, we kind of get up, we put the clothes on, we go and do the job to earn the money, to buy the stuff that we don't necessarily want, but we, then we buy the stuff to make us feel better about the job that we've got. And then before, you know, it, you're kind of it's snowballing and you know, you kind of can sort of take a step back and say, okay, you know, do I need all this stuff? Do I need these things? Am I chasing after the next handbag or whatever it is? And I just sort of wondered, I mean, how did you cope with that on a day to day basis? Did you feel that gradually, it was sort of like chipping away at you? It was like a drip, drip, drip that kind of was happening. Honestly,
Speaker 2:I don't hugely know. I think, you know, when you've become a journalist, you have, and particularly because I started on a very editorial platform with zero, you know, we were hard knowed fighting for the truth journalists. Okay. The might have been more to do with share prices and how companies are performing, but we were not by any means PR puppets. We were the opposite. My first news editor told me if you get sent, a bunch of you are in serious trouble because we're not here to serve the people who we're writing about. We're here to serve the readers and they want to know the truth. They don't want to know this PR line. So I came from that very hardness environment to suddenly gradually, gradually, gradually you go more and more and more commercial. And you know, everything you do is being paid by someone and you are somewhat, you are telling someone's story to sell someone a product. And ultimately did that make me feel good about myself. I was trying to sell women stuff that they didn't need. Maybe they couldn't afford. Maybe didn't make them feel great about themselves. And that's not to say that I think the whole luxury industry is like that because I don't at all. And I don't think all female luxury consumers of which I am still one. And there are still things, a hundred percent. I love buying lovely clothes and what have you. But to the extent that we were doing it, it was too much. And it was too much to be my job and my life. And ultimately wasn't rewarding. I did feel like I was just there to try and sell people's stuff that I didn't necessarily believe in mm-hmm<affirmative>.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I can't understand that. And um, I really love how honest you were about the challenge and then the new, the new phase of your life and what you switched into. So you said it was humbling, terrifying, and life-affirming to start from scratch at the bottom to go from being the most experienced to the least the power of learning is truly formidable. I mean, what did that whole experience teach you now? You've had, you know, you've kind of moved over. You can reflect, I mean, it, it was terrifying, but I assume it was also brilliant. What did you learn about yourself and what happened to you when you went through that process? Yeah, I mean, when I
Speaker 2:Left bar it was, I had nothing, so I just decided to leave and I had all, I kind of thought I wanna write a book, not like an Alex Schulman book, but a, a fictional book. And I did a course online and I really realized I wasn't very good at writing books.<laugh> brilliant and not very good at concentrating for that long or focusing or it just, it wasn't filling me with joy. I would. Okay. I love reading books doesn't necessarily mean I love writing them. And I, you know, I was playing around with loads of things and bit of just whatever anyone asked me to do, I kinda did, but I didn't really have a game plan. So that was just doing bits and pieces here and there. And then obviously it in 2020, and I think it really solidified for me that I missed and it sounds ridiculous, but I missed of everything. I missed group exercise of everything that we lost at that point, you know, dinners and parties. And you know, what I really missed was the buzz of group exercise, that a thing that I wanted other than anything else. So I think that solidified for me, but I never wanted to be a PT or like tell people how to lift weights. No, it's just not, I love doing it. And going to those group hit classes, I never felt pull to that. I think when in the summer of 2020 a friend got me to go to an indoor site, I'd never done it before, got me to go to an indoor cycling class and I just really fell in love with it. And I remember the more and more I went, the more I sat there thinking, trying to break down what the instructor was doing, trying to understand the choreography, the timing, the counting, and I was just really trying to get. And I, so I, I dunno, I just kind of thought, gosh, I can really see myself doing this. It brings together a lot of things that I love music dance. I'm a terrible dancer, but when you're on the bike, you can just do very small little moves. And you're kinda in the rhythm rhythm. Like it's almost poetry, like not cool enough to be a DJ or technical enough, but you are, you are almost being a DJ with the music and lifting people through music. So I kind of thought so on the slide, I did a course, a qualification in spinning, spinning with a capitals, which is like the trademarked in your cycling with an amazing woman here called rose high rose. Who's incredible, but it's spinning is quite hardcore. It's a bit more for like triathletes and people who are really you're monitoring your heart rate. It's very tech, it's less about the music and the fun and the bit that I liked, but I, I wanted to have like the technical grounding, the education. So I did that. And then I loved crank as a client, which is the gym that I now teach at. And I was very frequently, but I would never, ever have dreamed to inquire about being an instructor because I'm twice the age of the instructors. Many of them have fitness backgrounds, you know, there's like Olympians. They're like, you know, I wouldn't have even dreamed of it, but they put a call out for instructional auditions, which I saw, but I wouldn't have, but one of the instructors there, his class, I went to a lot, sent it to me on Instagram. And he didn't know that I had done a course had this in my head, had any, he just thought I was a client, but because he saw me in that way, that gave confidence to apply. And if he had done that, I wouldn't never have applied because I'd have thought, who am I kidding? Like, I'm not, you know, I'm 42 or whatever. I'm not the world's fittest person. I'm not an athlete. I'm not trained in this. I don't have a background in it. I've spent the last 20 years, you know, wearing she and flying around the world with handbags. I'm not a sporty person. And, but because he saw something and also because he didn't know, I think it was because he didn't know that I wanted to do it. He just saw it outta nothing. Like sometimes
Speaker 3:That's just what you need though. Isn't it shout out to that man, because yeah. Sometimes other people see something in the, you that you don't see yourself for whatever reason, and that could really give you the push that you need. But it's, it's fantastic. I mean, obviously you love it and it's been a really great shift for you. And I love what you were saying when you're saying, oh, I'm 42. And you know, I started playing tennis recently and I'm, you know, I'm a similar age and I can't do that. You know, I've left it too long. I should have done it when I was younger, but I started and I love it. And I think, you know, often when I look at gyms, there's a, a new gym that opened actually, I think it's since closed since COVID, um, that was in Jamira. And when I looked at their Instagram, every single person on the Instagram, I mean, no offense to 20 year olds, but every single person in the Instagram feed was 20. You know, there was no sort of harried mums kinda like dragging themselves in after a 12 hour working day, you know, I just wanted like normal people and I even messaged them. I said, you know, is everybody your gym like 20, because I'm gonna feel really intimidated if I come, I think there's a real opportunity to talk about, you know, show different people. And let's, let's be a bit more inclusive, you know, whether that's age, weight, size, whatever, let's show, what real people look like when they go to the gym. Otherwise we're just gonna put people off. And surely what we need now in this age of COVID is we need people to be wanting to do exercise and in not to be a chore and it to be joyful, like you were saying, and uplifting, and let's not put people off and most,
Speaker 2:You know, a lot of the, I think, I mean, that's a different, whole different topic about the visuals and the aesthetics behind it, but a lot of thet or the strongest clients that crank are women in their fifties and older. Oh, brilliant. Yeah. Not the skinny little girls at all, but I wouldn't say there's a correlation between how slim you are or as to how strong you are and how well you perform at all. So it's often the older clients who are great athletes. I hundred percent agree with you on the optics of the fitness in history. And, you know, that's what put me off applying in the first place. Or, you know, luckily John kinda gave me the nudge and I did, but I would never have dreamed of it. Cause I thought this isn't a world for me. I'm not, it's not my world. And yet it is my world because it was when I took away, all I wanted to do was go to crank and go on that bike. And there's a lot of, it's not just the bike, it's the darkness and the it's like going night clubbing, but no hangover. So there is this huge endorphin release and adrenaline push. And for me, it really works. I'm not into yoga or anything like that, but it's 45 minutes where you are not there. You're just with the music. You're kinda in a trance, you're sweating buckets. But for me it really works. It's like absolute magic. And it's been torture these past 10 days when I haven't been able to go because I've been stuck at hope. Cause I can't wait to go, but it really works for me and that movement. And then it just became very clear that how do I want to spend the rest of my life? Do I want to spend it selling people expensive handbags or do I want to spend it helping people get healthy and find happiness maybe and find mental fortitude as well as physical strength through something and how much more fulfilling is that. And yeah, obviously you have to be honest, there's a massive financial difference between being an editor in chief and being a cycling instructor. But there's also a lot less expenditure. I don't need fancy clothes to go to meetings or, you know, brands to impress anyone. I just need some types, you know, and a t-shirt and a of cycling shoes every year. So there is a shift and I, I'm very fortunate that I'm in a position where I can do it. Not everyone I know can become a fitness instructor. It's financially, it's really tough, but if I can help people be more healthy and it sounds so cliche, I think, but just find what I've found and you know, this is for life, right? At the end of your life, you want to be healthy and physically able to move and to be able to enjoy life. And you'll get that through staying physically active and the mental impact of it is absolutely huge. I think in terms of
Speaker 3:Mentally. Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. I'm seeing more of a move towards this. I think like, I mean, I was guilty of this in my twenties. I exercised a lot more than I do now. Cause I had more time. Um, and in my twenties it was always about how I looked, you know, I wanted to get into that dress, those sures, that bikini, I had a holiday, it was very, it was all about the outward. Whereas now, I mean, if anything changes physically, that's a bonus, but I do it for my mental health as much as anything else, you know, my mental health and my mental fortitude. I love that word that you said, and with everything that's happening with COVID, I mean, does it make you feel hopeful when you see sort of people, you know, queuing up to come into, everyone talks about crank every weekend, every evening, my feeds are full of people going to crank. Everybody loves it. Is this whole movement. Does it make you feel hopeful about the way that we're going in terms of, you know, society, a community, people are starting to place more of a, of a value on this, on this community and this cause there's this community part as well, right? It's not just the movement, it's a connection, which I think seems to be so important to people.
Speaker 2:That's exactly what it was during COVID. It was the group at exercise. So when we, when Dubai was in lockdown and it was what six weeks was or more I've always worked out quite a lot. I did quite a lot of CrossFit in my thirties, which I find a bit much now<laugh> so we were still working out at home, my husband and I have got like various bits and bobs, but oh, it's just so painful. And that's that I didn't realize that how powerful that community aspect of it was until it was taken away. And that's when it really hit home, how powerful it is to me was when it was taken away from me, I realized, oh wow, this is, you know, circuit, factory glasses are, are amazing. You know, when there used to be 120 of us in a warehouse moving stage to stage, it's been different since COVID. But suddenly I didn't realize when I had it, how powerful that experience was until, you know, it's me and Andrew plugging away with the kettlebell in the garden, on a rower, you know, going, oh, I knew that I needed to exercise to keep myself sane, but the community part of it is so, so important. I'm not for everyone. Right. But if that's what gets you going then? Yeah, it's incredibly, incredibly powerful. And it's just, I think when you find what works for you or what you love, that's, you know, hang onto it. Don't let it go. And for me, that has turned out to be recycling. I've never until yeah, it was summer summer in 2020 was the first time I got on a static bike. I would never have thought that that's what I would love because I was doing CrossFit. I was lifting heavy weights and this and that, but suddenly this whole experience was transformative. It and I think when you find that, whether it's yoga or Pilates or Zumba, it doesn't matter what the hell it is. As long as you love it, then keep that and keep that movement and that activity. And exactly, as you said, if you are doing it for the aesthetics, you won't keep going. Cause it'll feel like a chore. It'll feel like the word exercise itself means, oh, you know exactly negative word. I think it needs to not be a negative. You need to be doing it because you love it and you are passionate about it. And I don't even think about it. I just go, it's not even at, oh, I've got to go to the gym. It's just, it just happens. So when, once you get into that routine and it's just your life, it's a lot easier than I think to maintain, keep going with and see those benefits from. And it has made me happier. Ultimately it's made me a lot happier.
Speaker 3:Amazing. I love exercises, obviously, a, a really important part of your life. I mean, not exercise, we exercise<laugh> um, but I mean, this podcast is all about good intentions, how we can kind of like set intentions for ourselves. And you, you know, you mentioned your husband, you've got the kids, you know, you've got this really busy life. How do you stay grounded and connected to what's important to you outside of exercise? I mean, what are there certain rituals that you do as a family? Like just, how do you manage to keep that connection to what matters to you in the midst of all the chaos of, you know, just generally living a family
Speaker 2:Life, not like mega into all the, kinda the self-help or the spirituality or the affirmations or any of that to, to be honest, we're quite chilled as a family. I'm pretty laid back. I like everyone to have fun. I'm probably not as strict as I should be. Like the kids are supposed to be, they're gonna be on the trampoline for most of the day. So I dunno, I think we try and instill good kind behavior in them. It's hard in, in like a consumer society. When I know that, you know, they just want more Lego or they want more this or of that. And I heard folks just now as zoom, I think they were talking about birthdays and all the kids are going. The important thing about birthday parties is being with your friends. Cause all the parents have drilled that into it. I know full, well, all they care about is the party bag and the plastic tap. They take away from it. I know deep that's what the important thing about birthday parties is for them. But we're, you know, all the parents are like, no, it's about celebration with your friends and being together. And you know, so I think give yourself a break. Don't beat myself up over stuff, as long as they're happy, as long as they're kind. Yeah, they're horrible. A lot of the time and they fight, but most of the time they love each other and they're funny and they're cute and you know, they're completely barking, which is what matters to me as long as everyone's kind of happy and not stressed and not anxious. Then I'm, I'm kinda cool with that.
Speaker 3:I'm so glad you said that because I struggled with it a lot over Christmas actually. Cause um, we went away to Fuji Santa's presence got delivered to Fuji, which meant that we had take with us. And as I was putting them into the suitcase, I said to my husband and I thought we'd been quite good. Like it was Lego. You know, it was, it wasn't like huge, huge amounts of stuff, but I still filled a sizable suitcase with presents. And I said like, I just felt bad about it. I was like, well, there's just so much stuff. And she already has a lot of stuff and we're just getting more stuff and I feel very conflicted about this a lot of the time, you know, how do you balance? And yeah, like you say, kindness and those values at just think, we're just trying to kind of keep quite drip, drip dripping in. And that's how we try and live our lives. But I still struggle with, you know, I mean off to my right here, there is a Lego table and there is a mountain of, you know, there's a Lego hotel, there's some Disney Lego. There's, there's a yacht. I mean, every time I look at it, it's breeding. I try to tell myself it's very educational and it's fantastic for, you know, maybe you'll be an engineer who knows, but yeah, I struggle a lot with this whole consumerism culture and raising children within that environment. So I'm glad to hear you say it as well. Cause it makes me feel a bit less alone. I, we can't be the only ones I'm sure as well that are sort of struggling with this. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean the, the kids do stuff and they want lots of presents under the Christmas tree and they see that in a movie and it looks magical. And I remember that feeling as well of, you know, seeing those American movies when you're young and yeah, I probably am guilty of wanting to replicate that, wanting them to have that experience and percent over buying stuff that Christmas presents that haven't even been taken out the box, but they were so excited to have them. And you know what, sometimes I've just, I a break with things like that and think it's one day of the year, maybe we're spoiling them. I don't think they're really spoiled. To be honest, I they've got zero concept of brands or okay. Fox I'll confess. He did write letter Sam in which he requested an iPhone 12. Now why a 12? I dunno. I think, I don't think he's aware. And Sam did reply to him and tell him that that is not a request that the ELDs were prepared to consider he's seven, but you know, he was just being cheeky. He knew that that was not gonna happen. So in the main, as long as they don't act spoil or grab, then I also don't want the house to be Auste or too strict or too as long it's happy. It's just checking that that balance is there. I think checking that it's happy without spiraling into like being spoiled or, and I agree,
Speaker 3:And it
Speaker 2:Also keeps us happy as well when happy. And I think when everyone's happy, it's kinda a bit of a fulfilling circle. It's just a nice place to
Speaker 3:Be. Definitely. Um, I wanted to ask you, I mean, obviously you interviewed loads of people from all walks of life in your various roles. Is there anybody that you didn't get to interview? If you could interview anyone for the sort of world leaders, you know, international brands, is there anyone that you would like to interview that you never got?
Speaker 2:God, they're probably loads, but probably not people that would've been in a fashion magazine. Certainly I'd love to speak to authors of some of my favorite books, which absolutely would not be bizarre type material. So I love fantasy literature to speak to some of those great fantasy authors, Georgia, Martin kind, you know, those kinds of people. How do do that? You know, what's in their, I'm sure they're probably like really boring and can't articulate it, but they're incredible, right? People that can create these ho just to be able to delve into their psyche and understand how they do that would be incredible musicians. I think as well, you know, even DJs, just people, people who have this great creative output, which I I'd love to understand how they do that or just to be around that is, is amazing.
Speaker 3:Uh, agreed. Stephen King has always fascinated me cause obviously he writes these, you know, you may or may not like horror. I find them a bit too. They're a bit too frightening for me. Days since I've got older, I've become more cow custard, but I've, I've heard him speak before and he sounds like a perfectly normal person. You know, he sounds like he's just a normal human being. He also, I assume maybe he doesn't go out and get pins of milk. Maybe somebody else does that for him. But he, he speaks like a normal person and yet the books he writes, I mean, where does this come from? Fascinating how authors sort of put these things together. This is why the litera, um, Emirates literature festival is so fantastic. Right? You get to kinda come and see some of these authors and they come, I think it's next month. And just on books. I mean, I love to hear that you love reading. Are there any books that sort of you've absolutely loved that have meant something to you over your life? I,
Speaker 2:You were gonna ask about books and I'm so bad at remembering. I mean, I love so all the big fantasy epics I love. And there, there probably aren't many that I haven't read, but if you were to start grilling me on them, I wouldn't have a clue. What dragon is this? What? Cause they, they do kind of go in and out, but when I'm reading it, I'm so immersed in it. And I love those transformative world building experiences. They're my absolute favorite. And again, this maybe comes back down it similar to like buying the kids toys and stuff of, you can get into saying, okay, you need to read these books or you need to read these great works of literature, or you need to be reading voices from, um, minorities that haven't had a chance to be expressed. And these are the worthy books to read. And this is what you should be reading to widen your world. That's all very well. But if you're not enjoying, or it's not immersing you, or it's not, you're transporting you to another place. So you're not really coming outta that experience feeling better. Then I think that I like about dragons and wizards and that me happy. It, it brings, keeps me reading. And I, the most important thing is to be reading. Doesn't really matter whether it's the back of a cereal packet or it's, you know, the works of Shakespeare. I think as long as you are reading such a powerful tool. So again, like with exercise, find what you love and don't let go of it and you try other stuff, but don't be guilted into reading kind of if you like it. Amazing. And I'm sure there's incredible works out there that are uplifting, but so much that I find a little bit draining.<laugh>
Speaker 3:No, I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. I've just finished a very, um, much laud author it's fiction, you know, everybody's raved about it. It was this, it was bold. It was brave. It was, I think Maryanne keys said it was like a series of bomb. Go off. It was so impactful. I literally read it over a week. Every page I was like dragging myself through mud. I just did not enjoy it at all. And this, this is one of the worthy ones I was, you know, I couldn't wait to get it. I was like a little poppy waiting for it to arrive from mcg Rudy's and then it came and it just did not do it for me. And yet, you know, I know that the next one I might pick up a bunk Buster or, you know, a really a really basic thriller. I think you've gotta pick up whatever you and I read a lot and you gotta read, read what you like. If you self-help fiction, non-fiction memoirs, I'm an equal opportunities reader I'll read absolutely anything. And sometimes like you say, the ones that you're supposed to, like, if I doesn't do it, if you just move on. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We so privileged to have time to be able to, and to have that time. So don't make it a chore. I think, make it enjoyable. And again, I think don't beat yourself up over. It would be my advice. And, and I have heard people kind of say, you must read this and this and this and this and this, and you need to hear from these voices and, and I get it, but it doesn't work for me. I time with my dragons.
Speaker 3:<laugh> stay in that lane. I would say<laugh> absolutely. My final question is which I wanted to ask you, which I like to ask everybody. And it is a bit deep and the answer we can discuss it, however you want. But I mean, why do you think we are here? You know, I loved what you were talking saying about finding your joy and connecting to joy and you know, whether that's exercise or whatever, but why do you think we're here? What's our, it sounds like you've found yours.
Speaker 2:Gosh, I don't, I dunno that I have, but I is religious and I a upbringing. It's something that I maintained in. Anyway, I do miss that antibiotic. That's probably the one thing that I really miss from the kids upbringing is that basic kind of biblical knowledge that we had growing up in the UK and whether you believe it or not, it's almost more the, just the very basic principles of right or wrong. And so the lovely nostalgia and, you know, I bought an team to have, we were talking about Christmas just so that the kids would be aware of this is the baby, and this is Mary, and this is the shepherd because they dunno, right. They don't know the story of, they don't know the words to carols that we've had ingrained in us and that I do kind of miss and not, not because I believe in it necessarily, but it's, it's a lovely tie, I think, to your childhood and, and ultimate sense of a higher power or right. And wrong, however you Dubai. But like I said, it's not, I'm not religious. I don't read the Bible it's church. I probably don't really think about it.<laugh> like after life,
Speaker 3:But this whole sort of like organized religion, it doesn't have to be, you know, I think we, we can all have beliefs and things that guide us and principles, but you know, and it could be any different religion or it's just, it's a way that you live your life, right? It doesn have to be, you know, this kind of like organized setup, secular traditional way, I guess, whatever you wanna call it, which is normally quite patriarchal as well as normally a man at the top of it somehow. And especially in Dubai where everything is so open and we can all celebrate and have our different beliefs and all these different religions, like typical standard religions live side by side. But I think there's also, I huge group of people now that are just kind living their lives according to principles, which some of them are, if you actually break them down, you know, be kind love your neighbor, do unto others as you would have done. And to you, they, they may have religious backgrounds, but we're just kind of taking these principles and living our lives by them without necessarily going to church or going to the mosque or whatever you would traditionally do. So I think that's kind of quite an interesting progression as to where we are now as a society and sort of finding our ways and living our life with meaning and principles without necessarily having a religion per say, it's
Speaker 2:True. There is, you know, life is, is shades of gray, very hard to be all good or all bad. We've been, I've been talking about this with the kids quite a lot recently because superhero movie have been evolving, I think, cause we love all the Marvel and all this and that. We went into the Spiderman the other way and that we were talking about vena or something and you know, it's you no longer have you are the goodie. You are the bad, which is how we were brought up and how I think kids like to they can't is that the goodie is that the bad? And I've been trying to explain to them that, you know, humans are a little bit of this little bit of that. It's not, we're not all a hundred percent good, a hundred percent bad, and we can't all live by every, you can't always make the good decision and always make the bad decision, but there are shades of gray within that. You, you can make the somewhere along the scale decision. And I think if I tried to live the life of what might be perceived as good or might be perceived as the morally correct or spiritually on point decision, every time I'd go in highly insane, I'd have to go and be a Mon and live in a or something. I can't do that. It might not be the morally right decision to spend a ton of money on a pair of shoes that I'm gonna wear once when I could give that money to charity. But maybe once in a while you might buy the shoes because if you never buy them, you are stripping all joy out of your life. And then if you strip it outta yourself, you're stripping outta the people around you. So it's finding that balance and giving back where you can in a way that has the most impact. I think, and for me, I teach a group of kids. It's part of an organization called heroes of which I've been working with for again, that was another COVID thing. So I think I started working with them November 20, teaching fitness to kids, with learning people of determination. So athletes of determinations, especially learning needs from autism or cerebral palsy or across the spectrum from physical to neurological. For me, that's so something that I feel I can bring some personal skill to it and really change these kids' lives because it's very hard for them to be active and to have movement. It also gives the parents some time off the kids can run off and, and do be active for an hour that their parents can chill. Cause the parents, these children, my gosh, their lives are so, so, so hard and they're incredibly heroic individuals themselves, the parents and that it's, I think it was, for me, it was really valuable to find something where I could make a difference as Louise, rather than a generic sort of helping out in a way that was fairly generic. And this was really like, oh, I can really make a difference here and really bring some personal skills to this. And that's really rewarding. Sounds amazing. Louis, I'll have to, I'll get more details from on that. So I, cause that sounds fantastic. Holly's and they've just sports academy level. I'm not entirely sure how it works, but it's been different. I think you go through different progressions of formalizing and she runs a full activities program with kids and some adults of determination and they do rugby. They do swimming, they do athletics, they do CrossFit. I teach indoor cycling. I have taught boxing in the past. I mean, I'm terrible at boxing, so it's better that, but it's when you, it's so important for everyone to have access to physical movement and to feel powerful and to feel like they're progressing and they've achieved and they've lift a high heavier weight or, you know, that should be open to everyone. I that's really what Holly stand she's brought this access to everyone who might be excluded from those activities and, you know, made it completely open. She's amazing. Sounds fantastic.
Speaker 3:I'll look her up and IHA.
Speaker 2:We had the mountain biking in Hatter and kayaking and you know, trail running and doing all this stuff that you just wouldn't think, but it's open to everyone. So I can't kind of gone completely full circle, but it's fine. That balance. So give back where you need to, in a way that selfishly I get as much out of as the kids in my class. So it's so rewarding for me because I feel like I am actually imparting a skill and I feel valued and I feel like I am changing lives so completely selfish that I get so much outta it. I hope they do too. And I think, but when you find that, when you find the thing that gives you something back, you're gonna keep doing it right. You're gonna want to do more. And it, it works. So try and find that and understand that you can't just be constantly giving of yourself as a woman and a mother particularly cut yourself a break. My goodness. Or I always say this to friends who are having business, you know, take the help, take all the help. Don't try and March it out because you'll just end up miserable and no one wins, I think. Yeah,
Speaker 3:I couldn't agree all. And what a great point to end on. Yeah. Uh, the super points at the end. I really love your point about finding joy. Like sometimes you are allowed to find joy and things, you know, like we'd be lying if like I enjoy a comfort as much as the next person, you know, you don't have to sort of ack cloth on ashes and live in a mountain. You can have a nice life, but you can still also give back and live and, and find meaning of what you do and purpose whilst, you know, wearing a nice pair shoes is, you know, why not? I don't think they're mutually exclusive and yeah. Finding the balance is the key. So, um, thank you so much for our conversation that we, I thought it was fantastic. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much. Thank you. You
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for listening to the good intentions podcast. You can find links to issues and to books that we discussed in the show notes, and you can look for the podcast on Instagram. It's good intentions, UAE. Please do make sure you subscribe to the podcast. And if you enjoy this conversation, I'd so appreciate a review on whatever platform you're using. It helps more people find out about the podcast. See you next time.