The Good Intentions Podcast
Good Intentions connects with experts and storytellers around social impact, psychology, mindfulness, personal growth, and health.
Each conversation unpacks the beliefs and rituals that drive and ground each guest. You will hear about achievements that go beyond the conventional and tangible to a deeper level, finding the meaning and intention behind what we do.
I believe that there is a deep longing in our culture and society for something more: something higher, something deeper. Material possessions and technology do not satisfy our souls. As human beings we long for connection.
I'm on a mission to spread positivity, drive connectivity and to inspire others to live a more meaningful life.
The Good Intentions Podcast
Ep 32 - Authenticity in Leadership - James Lafferty
James Lafferty is the CEO of Fine Hygienic Holding and has been described as one of the most unique and diversified CEO’s in the world today.
He’s not just a successful CEO, he’s also an Olympic coach. An award-winning journalist. A college professor. A competitive athlete. A philanthropist, husband and father of 6.
James started his career with humble roots, as a youth track and field coach.
Hired by Procter and Gamble in his native Cincinnati, Ohio, James was recruited from the ranks of fitness instructor to enter P&G’s “Brand Management” program and after delivering incredible results on the US business, James was transferred into an international career that took him to North Africa, Central and Eastern Europe, The Middle East, Western Europe, Africa and Asia.
Jams is clearly a business powerhouse, and I was so keen to speak to him to understand what drives him to achieve so much and how he uses his experience for good.
He spoke with great honesty and candour about his challenging upbringing, what he considers to be his own personal failures, and how these have driven him to become the person and leader that he is today.
We talked about consumer culture, working practices post-Covid and how a modern CEO needs to bring empathy and energy to everything that they do.
He only hires on desire and his purpose in life is to leave the world a little better than he found it.
James is warm, optimistic and his honesty made our conversation a real pleasure.
I’m sure you’ll enjoy it.
Follow me, and the Good Intentions podcast:
https://www.instagram.com/kellyharvarde/
https://www.instagram.com/goodintentionsuae/
Find James here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-michael-lafferty-2737071/
Immerse yourself in some of the books we discussed:
Erik Weihenmayer - Touch the Top of the World
https://magrudy.com/book/touch-the-top-of-the-world-a-blind-mans-journey-to-climb-farther-than-the-eye-can-see-9780452282940/
Vince Lombradi - The Lombardi Rules
https://magrudy.com/book/the-lombardi-rules-25-lessons-from-vince-lombardi-the-worlds-greatest-coach-9780071444897/
Nelson Mandela - Long Walk to Freedom
https://magrudy.com/book/a-long-walk-to-freedom-the-autobiography-of-nelson-mandela-9780349106533/
Welcome to Good Intentions, the podcast where we explore the world around us to find meaning and intention in what we do. I'm Kelly Harvard and I'm on a mission to spread positive stories that will inspire you to live a more meaningful and connected life.
Speaker 2:James Michael Lafferty is the c e o of fine hygienic holding, and has often been described as one of their most unique and diversified CEOs in the world today. He's not just a successful ceo, he's also an Olympic coach, an award-winning journalist, a college professor, a competitive athlete, a philanthropist, husband, and father of six. James started his career with Humble Roots as a youth trap and field coach, hired by Proctor and Gamble and his native Cincinnati, Ohio. James was recruited from ranks of fitness instructors to enter p and G'S brand management program. And after delivering incredible results in the US business, he was transferred into an international career that took him to North Africa Central and US Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Western Europe, Africa, and Asia. James is clearly a business powerhouse, and I'm so keen to speak to him to understand what drives him to achieve so much, and how he uses his experience for good. He spoke with great honesty and candor about his challenging upbringing, what he considers to be his own personal failures, and how these have driven him to become the person and leader that he is today. We talked about consumer culture, working practices post covid, and how a modern c e o needs to bring empathy and energy to everything that they do. He only hires on desire, and his purpose in life is to leave the world a little better than he found it. James is warm, optimistic, and is honesty. Made our conversation a real pleasure. I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Good morning, James.
Speaker 3:Hi, how are you?
Speaker 2:I'm good, thank you. Thanks so much for joining me today, James. It's a pleasure to have you on the podcast.
Speaker 3:No, thank you for having me. Always a pleasure.
Speaker 2:And, um, I wanna jump straight into to your career and what brought you to the Middle East Cause you've got such an interesting background. James. Tell me about what brought you to the Middle East? Um, I think it was four years ago, interested what brings people to this part of the world and, and why they've come.
Speaker 3:This is my third time through the region. So, you know, I originally was working in the US with p and g, and I asked to go international and my boss didn't want me to leave, so she went to HR and said, give him an assignment that no American has ever taken, so maybe he'll turn it down and stay home. And so they came and they offered me Morocco, which had never had a non-native French speaker go there. Typically, they would take Belgian, Swiss, French nationals, not Americans. And I did have a base of French, but it wasn't really very good at that time. And I came home and told my first wife at the time, you know, we, we, they've offered me Morocco, and she gave a Barry what I would call classic American response, which is she said, oh, that's fabulous. I've never been to South America.<laugh>
Speaker 2:Brilliant,
Speaker 3:Not known for their geographic, uh, knowledge and acumen. So we did the look Steve visit to Morocco, and this was Prego war, but the Gulf War was building up in 1990. And I liked it, but I was just so terrified. And, you know, they interviewed me in French and I realized that my, my American, you know, eight years of school, French wasn't really very good. And they had told me, if, if you come, you gotta like do a lot of immersion, get ready. And on the way back to Cincinnati, I was in early airport in Paris and I literally cried of fear because of this whole unknown. And then, you know, my whole life has been guided by serendipity. I go back to the US and I'm so nervous and so scared, and suddenly home looks pretty nice. And it wasn't anything, nothing happened. It was just the culture shock of being there for a week. And the language differences and the cultural difference, it was just so overwhelming. And so I was gonna turn it down. And the way to turn down an assignment and save your career is you can never say, you can't say you're scared,
Speaker 2:Of
Speaker 3:Course. And you can't say the job's not good enough. For me. That's like the ultimate in getting yourself fired. There's only one way to turn down an international assignment. That is you have to blame your spouse,
Speaker 2:<laugh>,
Speaker 3:You give a standard story. I love the job, I love the opportunity. I'm so invigorated. I can't sleep at night. I'm so excited, but my wife didn't feel comfortable and blah, blah, blah. So I'm about to tell that. And I'm literally about to pick up the phone and call Morocco and tell the, the management there. I can't come. And this old guy in p and g comes by my office and he knew about the looks he visit, it was secret, but he knew. And he comes by my office and he says, Hey, I heard they offered the Africa. And I said, yeah, but you know, I don't know. And he, he looked at me and he said, look at me. He said, you know how old I am? I'm 64. He said, you know what? I regret my life. I only regret the risks I didn't take. And he said, if you don't go to Africa and learn and grow, you'll regret it the rest of your life. Don't be stupid. You take that assignment. And he was so convincing that I decided on the whim that I would change my mind. Wow. I was only fighting it because I was frightened. And so I picked up the phone, I called my wife, I said, I'm gonna take it. She said, I, you know, I'll do what you think is right. And then I called and said, I'm coming. Wow. And that was, and and I signed this document that said, you get a, within two to three years, you can come home and we have a job waiting for you. I told them, think two, not free. And that was, um,
Speaker 2:When I moved to Dubai. I think that's what a lot of people say when they're gone. Say, just a couple of years and then we'll be gone.
Speaker 3:And then I, I went, and then a whole world opened up to me, and that was 32 years ago. And I've never been back. And you know, I found in the, uh, you know, your first assignment, there's a certain honeymoon. It's like your first love in your life, you know, there was always a place in your heart. Morocco was my first assignment, you know, it really formed me. I love the country, I love the people. Uh, I was just back there like five months ago and it's just, it does how wonderful country. And you know, I didn't stay two to three, I stayed five. And I don't know, it was weird. I, I started to like go home and then I would couldn't wait to go back to Morocco. And it felt like Morocco was more home than the US did. And I started to wonder about Buddhist concepts. Like, let's take up like reincarnation. There was something like deep in me that felt at home in the Arab world. And I don't know what it is, but it's like, I've always felt at home in the Arab world, I've never been scared. It's only been love and a feeling of warmth. And it was, I reincarnated from some ancient, uh, you know, Arab person or individual, I don't know. And, and you know, we'll never know, but there was something strange about it. I've had the same feeling in Asia. I feel more at a home in the Arab world in Asia than I do in the United States of America. And that's my passport. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And so I did five years in Morocco, and then later I was appointed in p and g, the c e o of the Near East, uh, which I renamed the c n N markets because it was basically, my markets were always on cnn. I had Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, west Bank and Gaza Strip. I loved that job. I had that a couple years. And that's what brought me to really love this, even this region. And after that job ended, I always wanted to come back to the Middle East or Levon, you know, that the, the nearest was basically Levon come back to the region. But there, you know, there weren't any job offers. I mean, Jordan is a little, I love Jordan. I adored Jordan. It's a little, you know, it's a little country. You don't have a million jobs there. And on top of that, Jordanians are really talented. They have great people. They don't need to bring in foreigners to run their companies. Like, like you might see in Nigeria, uh, you know, when I was in Nigeria. And so I went almost 20 years, I would say, of being out in the region. And then I got a phone call in 2015 to be a board member of a Jordanian company called Fine. And I was one of five finalists. I was the only non-Arab. And I told my wife at the time, look, I'm never gonna get this call again. It's been 20 years. I've never had a phone call to go back. If I'm gonna ever work there again, I have to get this job. And so I made a decision I would not lose the job. And that's what we call sense for the historic. It's recognizing the most important moments in your life when failure is not an option. And so I studied the company, I studied all the people I was interviewing with. I went, I spent dozens of hours studying up. When I got in that interview, I knocked it out the park and I got the job as the board seat. So I joined fine in 2015 as an independent board director. I was still living in the Philippines running British American tobacco. And then by 2017 they started to ask me, would you come in and be the ceo because we need your help. And so I agreed in 2017 and I joined in 2018 full-time as the c e o and remained on the board of course. And that's the story. But you know, I have a deep love of the region, a deep feeling of, I don't know, being home. You know, I'm certainly, my wife never wants to leave Dubai and loves the region. And, and you know, it's not all perfect, but it's a great place to live and it's taking the full package. And, um, I've always felt at home and as part of the world, always loved it, always had passion for the region, always, you know, fiercely defending, uh, the region back home in the us and getting involved in things in the US like, uh, Cincinnati Islamic Association and my hometown. And, you know, trying to support and, and change perceptions about the region because obviously in certain parts of the world, certainly in America, the PR on the region is not good.
Speaker 2:Agreed. Yeah. I think it's the same, same in the UK and much of Europe as well. And it really warms my heart to hear you say that you feel such a strong sense of home when you're here. And it's something that I felt when I landed in the UAE 15 years ago. And I also spoke to Isabelle Apple, who is the, um, she's the CEO of the Emirates Literature Festival, and she came to UAE in like the sixties. She fell in love with an Arab guy in London and then moved here. So like, it was literally like when to Dubai, it was just a pile of sound and a palm tree. And she said as soon as she landed, she felt like she was home. And I said to her as well, you know, I kind of feel like I've lived here before, I've been here before. I think it's so interesting when people say this, if, if you love the Middle East, you really love the Middle East. People have this really strong, strong emotion attached to it. How do you kinda reconcile this sort of perception of home then this concept of home and where home is? Because I assume you still have family and friends in the state. So, you know, people often say to me, you know, when are you coming home? Whether it's for a visit or, you know, I think they've stopped asking me, are you ever gonna come home full stop? But there's this kind of, when are you coming home? And it jars a little with me because obviously this is home now, but at the same time, you don't wanna sort of upset anybody who for home, for them home is your origin country. How do you kind of reconcile that in your head?
Speaker 3:You know, for me it's pretty easy. It's a good question. It's quite easy because I've lived in so many places and I loved every place I lived in, you know, I've always been a glass half full person and and say, what do you find positive? I lived in Sydney, Australia, I found the positives. I love my life there. I lived in Geneva. I found the positives. I love my life. I live in Manila. I find the positives. I love living in Legos, Nigeria. And that's a very difficult place to live. And you find the positives, you dwell on the positives and the things that you can do and the things that you can impact. And so I've never been negative. For me, home is where the heart is. And I don't the thought of, I mean, Cincinnati always have a little bit of a special place. I was born and raised there. I went to university there. Uh, you know, I had my kids, some of my kids there. I mean, it was a special place. And when I go back, I, you know, I reminisce and do stuff, but the thought of, I may never live there again, doesn't even remotely bother me. You know, if you say of all the places in the world that you could live, you know, where would you wanna live? Okay. You know, there are, there are places I love more than others. I'd probably wanna spend half my time in Paris and half my time in Manila, Philippines, if I could put it in a perfect package. But I'm looking at things like, you know, the cities I really love and cost of living and, you know, cost of stuff. I mean, the only negative I have on bias is just becoming astronomical to live here.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It certainly is. Absolutely. Um, so,
Speaker 3:And when you, you know, when you retire, you look at how much you have and if you retire and go and live in a place like the Philippines, you live in tropical luxury the rest of your life. I mean, I know, you know, one time there, it's a big story about retirement, about strategic thinking. I was in the southern islands, you know, Philippines is 7,000 islands. So I'm in one of these islands in the south. They never see like, you know, white people. And the kids are following me around and, and you know, they want some candy and stuff like that. And I'm in this wet market, which is where all the fish are out and, you know, meats hanging and it's all hot and sweaty and you know, you're, it is a tropical Mars called a, a palanke. And it, it's a wet market. And I'm in this market and I hear this voice in a southern US accent says, you must be from the usa. And I'm completely like, flabbergasted. And I look and there's this old guy, white guy sitting in a chair in the middle of the market and I say, what the hell are you doing here? I mean, there's no, this is a place, there's never any kinda white people coming around. Yeah. And he, he says, well, you know, he tells me the story and he, and he said, I'm 75 years old. I said, grant, he said, I was here during the Vietnam War. Oh,
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:Which was like my brother. My brother loved the Philippines. Everybody. They would come through Su Bay on us Navy ships and meet people and go out and, you know, have fun in the town. They said, this is a really warm country. I mean, Filipinos are delightful people, of
Speaker 2:Course
Speaker 3:Society. And he said, I never forgot how great it was here. I go back to the US after my tours up the Vietnam War, I became a truck driver. I married my high school girlfriend. I drove a truck for 30 years. I retired, my wife died of cancer. My two kids come and see me once a year at Christmas. They're both married and moved away. And I'm sitting there alone making, you know,$2,000 a month social security. And I got this little pity pension from being a truck driver that has a principle of like$300,000. So I make maybe, you know,$15,000 a year off my pension. I make 2000 governments. I'm living off 3000 a month and I'm lonely and I don't have money to even live a life. And I remembered the Philippines. And so you do have to look at the financial side of retirement. Most people retire and struggle.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Absolutely.
Speaker 3:And that's one thing that Dubai is struggling with is that everybody wants to live here and is driving up prices. I mean, just to buy something now is really unbelievably shocking.
Speaker 2:And so do you have a, do you have an exit plan for Dubai? Are you planning when you will go? Or are you planning to stay here for the foreseeable?
Speaker 3:Good question. It's probably like in discussion. I think a part of us wanna stay for sure a part, you know, a part is like what are the other options out there? Especially now that I have a young baby again. So I've got, my family spread is pretty traumatic. I mean, my oldest son is 37 with three kids. I have a1 month old.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, James. How
Speaker 3:I've got six kids from a wide variety of ages. Some in the thirties, some are twenties. When we lived in the Philippines, and this is back to the serendipity, when we lived in the Philippines, I was done having kids. I had four on my own. I was done. I had a whole plan. And then serendipity steps in,
Speaker 2:You know, I know that you're one of seven kids. How did your upbringing and your childhood sort of shape you, sort of who you are as a person, but also as a business leader? Did that?
Speaker 3:Well, I was an unplanned seventh child in a Catholic family to a 50 year old father and a 48 year old mother. My siblings were grown up. I was born a, an uncle. The second I came out, I was already an uncle, uh, to four kids. My oldest sister already had four children when I was born. And we didn't have much money. It was a constant struggle to survive. I think the biggest thing was, you know, learning how to work with people. You know, these huge families, these huge dinner tables with so many people around them and fighting over food and, and struggling to survive. I mean, I had a huge sense of hunger to provide for my family. And, you know, when I went to university, I had to pay my own way. You know, nobody was helping me. I look at the things I did, and it's funny, the mistakes I've made as a parent, the biggest mistake by far is that I tried to deprive my kids of the struggles I had, which in doing so, deprive them of the learning that I had. I mean, it's funny you never raise your kids to want them to be spoiled. But I somehow on a couple them, I really screwed up because I used money as like a surrogate to let them not have the bumps in life that I had. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And I mean, my whole life has been defined by adversity. And then you go and you say, I don't want my kid to go through what I went through, but why not? I mean, to a certain point, I mean, why not pay for school? You know, here I was the father saying, you go to whatever university you want, I want you to go and study what you want. I mean, my dad told me, we have no money. You gotta figure it out. If you wanna go to college, you gotta figure it out. If you wanna work in a factory, go work in a factory.
Speaker 2:We're hardwired as parents to do everything you can to avoid them feeling pain. Right. You know, whether that's falling over in the playground or, you know, having huge heartbreak or, you know, facing bigger challenges. But then at the same time, like you say, yeah, you have to give them that learning as well. So it's, it's a really hard balance to find, I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And then let's take like broken bones. Okay. We had no medical insurance. We were always struggling for money. I come home with screaming and crying and sobbing and my, yeah, I think my ankle's broken because I jumped off a wall at 10 years old and twisted it when I came down. You know, my dad would get a magazine out, wrapped the magazine around my lower leg and then tape it as a cast. I never, we never went to an emergency room to a doctor. The only time I went was when I broke my collarbone because the bone was sticking out.
Speaker 2:Oh
Speaker 3:My goodness. That one, you know, and that one my dad's like, well, I don't really know what to do on this, but every other one. And then years later when I've got money and I have medical insurance, I go to the doctor and, you know, I, I was running marathons and they go and they take an x-ray of my, my ankle and the guy says, who the hell set this bone? You know, you have an old break, but the bone didn't heal. Right. And I say, oh, my dad did it with a magazine,
Speaker 2:<laugh>,
Speaker 3:You know, I mean, wraps the magazine, a big thick magazine around my ankle to make it totally immobile. And then tapes the magazine in place. And that was my cast. And, and you know, we, doctors were like a luxury. And I, and I am like this to this day. I mean, my daughter's been sick, a couple. We only go for regular appointments. I re I don't take her for like a cough and a fever. I don't take her, you know, she old, she gets through it. I mean, I, and my, you know, my wife's a little bit like, should we guys say no? You know, I'm, I've got, I'm a physiologist by training. I got a good physiology background, but you know, I was raised more, you don't like abuse medical doctors. I mean, you go when it's serious, you don't go for every fever. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> every cough and you all this kind stuff. And, and that was the house I was in. We didn't have medical, we had no emergency medical coverage. And so going to emergency room, my dad had to pull out a credit card, you know, and pay the whole bill. And you know how us medical care is, it's astronaut. So, I mean, you only went, like you said, when I came home and the bone was sticking out all over the place on my chest, he said, okay, let's go to the hospital. You know, I never went.
Speaker 2:And how did you have that, how was your relationship with your parents, you know, going, knowing that you went through sort of, they have such struggles and such challenges. Did you sort of respect them all for making their way through that? Or did you feel any of residual resentment or,
Speaker 3:Well, they've been dead for a long time, but I put them on a pedestal now. I was a pretty, I became a very, uh, see my mother got Alzheimer's, and this is a big defining thing for me. And even the work we do here with Alzheimer's stuff is back to that. And it started, she had early stage Alzheimer's. So I was born at 48 by 55. She was really going,
Speaker 2:Wow, that's
Speaker 3:Early. And I have all these memories of like, we're on a family trip, family vacation. US is a big driving country. You can drive, you know, for days. And my dad would be driving and he would say to her, now I'm gonna sleep a bit. You just drive straight. We're gonna stay on this road for 10 hours. Wow. And he would go over and sleep. And then I, this one time I wake up and the car's bouncing. And my dad, I hear my dad screaming and he is yelling at my mom, what are you doing? And she's like, well, I thought I was supposed to, we're in the middle of like a cornfield driving on a, on a tractor road. And she had just, he had told her stay on this road for eight hours. She just got off and started driving. And we ended up in a cornfield like in the, we, we were off off the main road and we'd all kinda laugh about it. Like my older brother and sister would laugh about it. But, but we all knew something was wrong with her. And then by by 17 she started forgetting who I was. And 16. Now even, yeah, 15, 16, we'd had these huge fights in the house. Like she'd, I'd tell her in the morning, I'm not gonna be home for dinner. I got football practice, I'd come home at seven and she'd be waiting for me steaming. I cooked dinner from you. And I said, I told you. And my dad would always take her side. And the house became really tense. I was the last one left. And we fought all the time. And then she started for get me, my dad was sobbing and he said, you need to leave. I think this house, it's not good for you. And I said, I'm outta here. And I walked out at 17. I never went back.
Speaker 2:Gosh.
Speaker 3:And I spent my whole rest of my life, including this job, trying to understand Alzheimer's. And I'm so proud that we've launched the only product in the world that's ever been shown to have reversal, partial reversal of Alzheimer's and clinical studies. And, and you know, I, it's all driven by my past and this horrible disease that I never wanted in any part of. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, uh, I'd rather have cancer or anything any day than this because it rips your mind out and leaves your body alive.
Speaker 2:And did you reconcile, I mean, was there ever a point which you could reconcile with her? Or was she, was her mind gone too much? And did you reconcile it with your dad?
Speaker 3:I had a dad and I did that my father and I reconciled the day he died because they, you know, we were always at each other's throats and yelling at each other and stuff. And we were both bullheaded and he had congestive heart failure. And he was with my sister in Florida, and she called me and Cincinnati and said, this is it. You know, he, because he is been off dialysis, he's gonna go into a coma soon. And he got on on the phone and, you know, he never told me he ever loved me until that day. And I told him I loved him. And he said, I love you too. And he, he sobbed and choked up. And he, you know, he was in that old generation pre great depression. You don't show your emotions. You don't say you love your kids. I mean, I, that's why I tell my kids I love them every day. Well,
Speaker 2:I was just about to ask you, how do you, do you, do you
Speaker 3:Accept your I never wanted to do that to my children. What? You know, I mean, I, I heard my father tell me he loved me once in my life and it was a day he died and we hung up the phone and then they called me in the middle of the night and I, I walked in the phone and I knew what it was. It was like 3:00 AM and it was my sister crying saying he's dead. And he had slipped into a coma and went into organ failure. My mother, I obviously sat and told her I loved her and I never held it against her, but she was too far gone when she was at her husband's funeral, she didn't even know what was happening. She didn't even realize her husband was dead. It was all, she was too far gone. So, you know, I tried my best, but I also, you know, I had some of my brothers and sisters, you know, dive into me a bit about being patient, whatever. I said, you know, I mean, screw you. You never lived in this house with this thing going on. I mean, this place was a nuthouse. And you know, you come here for every other month and you visit for two hours and you're a patient and then you get to go home. I'm here four seven.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's a very different lived experience.
Speaker 3:I was a teenager, I was an adolescent and, you know, I couldn't bring friends over the house. I couldn't, I had a girlfriend. I couldn't bring her around. I was so embarrassed because, you know, my mother would, would ask what their name was, like 30 times, you know, I remember bringing a girl around and then they said, what's your name? And she says, oh, it's, you know, it's Molly. And then, you know, we're five minutes later we haven't met. Yeah. What's your name? And then, you know, your dinner like four times. And, and obviously Molly was quite like smiling. I'm still okay, Mrs. Lafferty, my name's Molly, but you know, she never wanted to step foot in the house again.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And when you're a teenager, that's really hard to navigate, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Old girl, you know, she's scared and nobody understood. I mean, Alzheimer's gone mainstream. I mean that movie with, um, Julianne Moore where she was a professor at Columbia and got early stage Alzheimer's and went through it. I mean, I watched that on an Emirate flight. I cried so hard. And I said, I'll never watch that again. It's so real. I mean, the performance she gave, it was so real. And you know, these movies like that, that which are are big Hollywood productions, they go global. Uh, they win awards. I mean, she was nominated for the Academy Award for that. You know, this helps de demystify. Now you have so many people with dementia Alzheimer's. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, this was the late seventies. Nobody talked about this stuff. Not in a woman in her fifties, you know. And so it was a whole different world and it was scared people. I mean, I walked outta the house in 82, you know, so it, it was a, a very, very different time. It didn't have the kind of awareness. Now it's accepted. There's, you know, there's Alzheimer's clinics and there's places and everybody has somebody in their family with dementia. You know, it's demystified much more, but not back then it wasn't talked about.
Speaker 2:Right. Very different time. So I think it's really fair to say like your childhood and your upbringing has shaped you like in a very, in a very specific way and given you this sort of huge sense of drive and purpose. I wanted to ask you about, so you're leading a huge team, right? At fine hygienic holding. So what are the biggest issues from a business perspective, if we move into that? What are the biggest issues that you're facing from a team perspective right now? And what are the things that are coming up, especially post covid? I'm interested in knowing if things have sort of changed since covid, how you look at your team and employees.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we have a bit of an edge cuz we handled Covid, you know, particularly, well. First of all, our business obviously toilet paper suddenly became like a commodity and everybody wanted it. And so our business didn't suffer. Whereas you had, everyone in our company had family who lost their jobs or went to 50% pay. I mean, if you were in the airline industry, you know, you were wiped out or restaurants and things. Our poor business and tissue stayed very strong. And then we had masks on top. We were actually had a record year during the pandemic. And so people didn't have to worry about their jobs then. We never took any chances. I mean, I had forced masking in this office in February of 20, 22 months before the Dubai government dating. I fact had a yelling match with the people that were in the health ministry saying masks are not needed. And I said, you're outta your mind. I mean, I had called a friend of mine who was a ologist in January, and I said, what do you know? And he said, I've seen all of the data. He said, now I can't tell you on the record, but I'll tell you off the record. He said, first of all, if 50,000 people in Wuhan have this, it's airborne. It's not off doorknobs. Okay, it's airborne. Now we don't wanna say it in the W H O because it'll cause panic, but this face, it's airborne. He said, secondly, I've seen the data on the attraction to the, the human respiratory tract. It's 10 times the level of sars. So this virus loves the human lungs and the human risk respiratory tract. He said, it's gonna be a billion people that catch it. It's gonna go everywhere. The attraction rates way too high. And he said, given all of this, the number one thing to do is to put a mask on to cover your nose and mouth. He said, washing your hands is a very distant number two. That was on like Jan 15. I was in the market with masks by Feb eight. And I mandated a mask in our company with everyone grumbling. I said, you all wear a mask because I care about you and I love you and I don't want you to get sick. And they say, yeah, but the government, I said, it's coming, trust me, everyone's gonna mask up. So, you know, we people, when that all came down and then everybody went to masks and we had this special antiviral mask that with great technology, you know, people were very thankful. And then we brought in 24 7, 7 languages, mental health counseling for people. We did online exercise classes for people. I mean, we did a really good job through the pandemic. And so when we exited, yes, we had mental health, it certainly elevated, we had a number of issues, uh, you know, and people, some significant mental health challenges. But we had done far better than most companies despite all of that, that, you know, the real issues is, is that I joined this company as a culture and transition. It needed to be, it needed changes in its corporate culture. And that's still a journey. You know, we're still not there yet. I mean, it's a, changing culture is hard, especially with 4,000 people. It's not always easy. And we still have elements, it's much better. But we still have elements in the culture and in pockets, you know, I would not be happy with and, you know, no world class company would wanna be happy with. But we've made huge progress. We have a great team. I'm a big believer that in the power of environment, that you, you surround people with good people and they respond to that. And uh, that's what we try to do. But we really weathered the pandemic better than almost any company. I know. It was partly the business and partly the luck of the masks. There was a number of things that we were lucky and we had the right business model that helped us to survive that.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And how do you think, I mean, you talk about culture, um, something which comes up a lot, especially when I interview people, is empathy. I'm interested in, in how you feel about empathy. Like is there any place for empathy and leadership? Like you seem to be a very warm person that cares about people. Do you feel like you're an empathetic leader? How, how should it be in, in business?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I'm like anyone else. I have very clear leadership principles. I think, you know, the foundational principles, doing the right thing. You know, when I used to teach in college in the Philippines, I, I, I taught a leadership class and the same question was asked every semester. Someone would say, was Hitler a great leader? Because, you know, he seemed to motivate people and inspire people and, you know, all that he, you know, he got to be the head of the country and all that. And I'd say, well, there are elements of leadership that he was very good at, like communication. But he failed on the biggest test of all. The biggest test of all for me is where's your moral compass? And you know, as a leader, you've got to be ethical and you've gotta do the right thing and you gotta put you, you're held to a higher standard. And so that's why when, uh, bill Clinton has a fling with Monica Lewinsky and he's like, well, presidents have private lives. I just poo poo that completely. If you can't control yourself, then don't be a leader because, you know, I can't go around here trying to sleep with my people and trying to take advantage of the situation. You have to hold herself to a much higher moral standard than that. None of my people have ever seen me put a, a one sip of alcohol on my lips. It's not that I don't drink alcohol, that I have a religious issue with it. But, you know, there's too many people I've seen that have one drink too many and then they behave in a way that's unbecoming of a leader. And that's never gonna happen on my shift. You know, nobody's ever gonna brag and say, well man, Jim had too much to drink at at the company Christmas party. That'll never happen because I don't even start with the first sip and nobody's ever seen it. And I don't travel alone with women on my team. You know, I don't, I don't create gossip and create rumors. You have to live to a higher standard. And people will say, well, that's a shame. You should be able to have a glass of wine when you want. No, no, it's not. That's the price of leadership. If you don't like it, then don't take the job. So it starts with that. Then there's empathy, which is understanding your people for people. Because I started as a fitness instructor in p g making$5 an hour and got recruited from a part-time being a part-time contract employee to becoming marketing and then eventually becoming a ceo. I know what it's like to be at the bottom and I know what it's like to be mistreated and I know what it's like to be ignored. And so that'll never happen on my because I always remember the golden rule, be nice to everybody because you don't know who's gonna be your boss someday. And a lot of p g people found out when the fitness instructor made CEO that, geez, maybe I should have been nicer to the guy when he was the fitness instructor because I got mistreated by lots of people and he's just a dumb jock, weightlifting instructor. I don't need to be nice to him. I don't need to be punctual. I don't need to come on time. I don't need to, you know, say hello to him if he says hello to me. He's just a nothing. And you know, I I, I'll never forget that I grew up in the bomb. I'm not a rich kid going to Harvard Business School. I'm the poor kid from Cincinnati who went to a state school and studied psych and physiology. I never even took a business class. And then, you know, the final one is authenticity that I would talk a lot about, which is people wanna work for authentic leaders. And it's very hard to find in a social media world. I mean, who puts bad things on Facebook? It's all the perfect happy family, everything. And then I gave a speech last week in Singapore to a company and must have been 20 people came up to me and said, man, you're the real deal. I mean, I've never seen such authenticity. When people leave, like Procter Gamble is a senior level like I did, they all say the same story. I've decided to step away and dedicate time to my family and everyone claps. It's all. When I got pushed out, I was pushed out. I tell people I got fired nicely, I missed my numbers. And they said, maybe it's time for a change. And I stayed for another year and I got paid a package, but they fired me. Mm-hmm. I didn't go out and give this like sob story about being with my kids. And then I take another job three months later and people know this stuff. And so I always encourage people to own up to your mistakes. People love you for it. When Hugh Grant was caught with that prostitute in LA and he went on all the talk shows and he talked about the Springer principal and he said, my PR people told me, come clean. He came clean on every talk show in the us It was gone in a week. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Yeah. Nobody talks about Hugh Grant with a anymore. But then Clinton never listened anyone. He fought it, what's the definition of sex? I didn't have sex with her playing all these lawyer games and and he can't drop it to this day. He can't drop Lewinsky. It's still dogs him. And that was from 1998. And it's getting back to a simple human principle, authenticity. People wanna work for real people. So yeah, I'm the CEO and I've got some brains in here and there, but I also screwed up big. I screwed up on my wife. I cheated on somebody who didn't deserve it and I deserve to have her leave me. And we're best friends today. My ex-wife and I be, and I told her, I'll take care of you the rest of my life. But I screwed up big time. I was, you know, all this, you know, blah, blah. But she didn't deserve what I did to her. And, and I'm an idiot and I got fired from a job. I, I think if you don't get fired once in life, you're doing something wrong. It's like the French ski school. They tell you if you don't fall down, you're doing something wrong. You're not pushing yourself. If you are pushing your limits, you'll be fired at least once in life. And I was fired once in life and there's nothing wrong with it. And you know, I interviewed a guy the other day here who admitted to me, he got pushed out of his last job. I'm gonna hire him as my next leader of that department because I love that he's honest. Cause all these guys just lie and it's, people lie on Facebook. I know friends that are putting up pictures of them and her wife holding hands, lovey dovey. He's kinda like two girlfriends on the side. He doesn't even sleep in the same room with his wife, but they gotta put on the show. We got the perfect marriage, we're like the, you know, we're the perfect couple. We're like, we're a team. I'm incomplete without her. And he's, he's telling me how he, during the pandemic, he was crying on my shoulder. I, I'm so upset I can't go because of this lockdown. I can't go and sleep with my girlfriends. I have to be with my wife every night. I can't stand her. But then there's this picture on Facebook of hugging and horny and we're starting to raise people in a world where it's all perception, create the perception. And in that world, the authentic people win. And I was on stage last week, like 150 senior managers, this Fortune 500 company. At the end there's a q and a and a person asked me, what's the biggest mistake for your wife? I said, you really wanna know? And they go, yeah, I'm just curious. What's, what do you consider your biggest mistake? And I said, cheating on my wife. The place like dropped their jaw. And I told the story, I go out, we, we do the break, the q and a's done. I go to the break and they have like, you know, it's in this big hotel in Singapore and you know, they've got all these snacks and drinks. I go out to get a snack. I mean people are in like in line, God, you're man, you're the real deal. I've never heard such authenticity. I'd love to work for you. You know, you called as you see it, I love it. It just by telling the truth, nobody came up and said You should go to hell, to hell because you cheat on your wife. You know, or, or through like the fundamentalist Christian, you know, view in my face. Nobody said that. It was all the other, the opposite in own up to your mistakes. And you, you know, and you confront them,
Speaker 2:Which takes a certain amount of, you know, to be vulnerable, honest, like that can be quite frightening and quite exposing at the same time. Right? I mean you, you seem to be quite fearless I would say.
Speaker 3:Yeah. On that one. But, but you know, there's a price. I mean I have a sister doesn't really talk to me anymore. I got lots of ex friends who really aren't my friends. I mean it's amazing. Whenever I had friends in my life get divorced, I always said the same thing. I love you both and I don't know anything about it. And I don't know what goes on in your marriage, but know that I support you both and I want you both to be happy. I never made judgment calls. The number of people that made like a judgment on my marriage was amazing. You know, I mean my view was literally I'm not hurt, I was angry. I'm like, who the hell are you to even know what went on in someone else's bedroom? I mean, you can go and make that statement now you can say you don't even know the whole story. Now I will take all the blame. But it was never a hundred zero. And even my ex-wife says that she's like, there's a lot of things I did wrong too, but I appreciate how you've protected me and defended me. So
Speaker 2:I'm just conscious of time and I wanted to ask you some things that I think my listeners will be really interested in about. So you're clearly very successful. You're leading a huge team and you're sort of running a huge business. So do you have a morning routine or do you have like a mindset when you wake up in the morning because you must wake up some morning gym and just think, I can't do this. Like, you know, I'm tired, you know, I can't face this. How do you kinda get over bad days? How do you set yourself up for the day?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm an early to bed, early to rise person. I'm up early and I'm in the gym every day, or at least six days. I'm in the gym, you know, 6:00 AM 6:30 AM that's my temple to de-stress. My best thinking goes on in the gym. Uh, that's my thing. And I'm gonna give you a, a theory of mine. Like if you're really able to look inside yourself, you can explain your entire behavioral pattern. Now my mother had Alzheimer's, so my whole life is about reading about it, studying it, looking at products, trying different things, you know, because it, it so impacted me. The second big thing in my childhood was I was the most picked on kid bullied for like a seven year period. I mean, from six to 13 I hated my life. Now I never thought about suicide because, I don't know, back in the, the sixties and early seventies, you didn't think about that stuff. But you know, my happiest days in my childhood were snow days, which was, it snowed so much in my hometown that you listen to the radio and they would say the the following schools were called off due to heavy snow. And they would call out my school's name and I would cheer because I have one day where I wouldn't get beat up. And I hated my life. I hated I would go to the bus stop. My mom used to go with me and protect me. Cause I'd be so scared sometimes. And I get on the bus the minute we pull far enough away, they start hitting me and making me cry. Yeah. I just hated it. And so up until 13, my first year in high school I wanted to play basketball and my whole life changed. I broke my collarbone really bad. That's when the bone came through the skin and basketball, the whole training period to get ready for basketball. I missed it cuz I was in this, this special cast. The cast comes off and, and my arm had really shrunk and become really scrawny and I couldn't even shoot the ball, right? So I hated weightlifting. But I went into the weight room and I started training with the weight guy every day. Cause I wanted to try for the basketball team. And I started to obviously put on a little bit of muscle and we went on this family trip at Christmas and I'd probably been lifting like for a couple of months. And I was ready to quit because I was was done and I was healed. And we met old friends and the old friend says, have you been lifting weights? You look really good. You look, nah, you look muscular. And that was all I needed to hear. And I became a weight room fanatic. And I basically rebuilt my whole self-confidence through strength training to the point that the bullies on the street that used to bully me got scared of me. Right. And I would not be talking to you today sitting in this chair doing nothing if I hadn't have discovered the weight room. And I've told so many moms who've come to me on bullied boys and say, the greatest thing you can do is put the kid in the weight room. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> because boys look at muscle and they, they think about muscle and they worry about size. And when they see somebody getting bigger, they get intimidated and the bullies will go away. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:<affirmative>. And it must be the mindset as well, right? Cause it's the mindset of going and repeating something and constantly trying and training as well. That must give you some sort of mental resilience, right?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. And then you even win, like I've won multiple, you know, even the Philippines, a couple years ago I won the national title in bench press. You know, that's that scrawny kid that got beat up every day. You know, I actually became the best in a country of a hundred million people. You learn so many lessons in that about tenacity, persistence, patience. And then you also learn about self-confidence. Then the self-confidence is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more you have, the more you get. And so I'm a very different person than I was. I'm still very sensitive. That makes me, I still cry in movies and I cry in stories that people tell me. And I, you know, and I have huge empathy for, for other people, but I'm much more confident in myself and that, and it all started with strength training. And, and so you look at me nay, why don't I still have to lift weights at 59? Why don't I just go and do an elliptical or a, a treadmill? Because deep down I'm still the 13 year old that was being beat up every day. And size muscle matters, size of muscle matters. And you go and you look, you say why I'm the oldest guy in, in fitness first on the, they've told me you're the oldest member here. You know, these young kids will come up to me, high school kids. Oh sir, you're, you're our inspiration and stuff. I'm the oldest guy in the gym. Why? Because I can go back and find it in your past if you really study your past. I firmly believe you can explain all of your tendencies and patterns today.
Speaker 2:Of course. Absolutely. And you said something which I wanted to ask you about, which was that you don't really have any cherished physical possessions. You prefer to spend money on experiences. And I'm constantly feeling a bit tall about this. So, you know, I'm trying to live a sort of spiritual connected life I wanna serve, but at the same time I live in this very consumed society where, you know, you need to have a car, you need to live in a house, you know, kids want things. So how can we kind of try and live a life with meaning when there's so much sort of focus on stuff in our society?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I never had a big thing for stuff. I think because I grew up with nothing and I never had ever the best of anything in my, of my class. I had to learn how to deal with that or otherwise my self-esteem was gone because if it was the best bike, I never had the best bike. I always had hand me downs since, you know, my parents drove basic cars, you know, the car. So I somehow I convinced myself that possessions don't make you who you are. And I never got caught up in that in any sense, you know, in shape of the world, I prefer, yeah, I mean, the only reason I even drive a decent car now, so my wife refuses to let me be, I would prefer to have a little basic little Toyota. I mean, I don't believe in spending money on cars now. She like, through this fit, like you're, this part of the world cares about this. I can't have you driving in the office. But, you know, we only buy used cars even to this day. I've never bought a new car. All my cars here, I came in and bought used cars I didn't want to spend for noon. I don't know, I just never had it. The only thing I cherish is photographs. You know, if the house burns down, that's all I want to get. I mean, couches and furniture and I could, I could care less about all this stuff that was helped with so many things. Like I moved to Nigeria into a, a furnished home that Coke gave me and all the furniture wasn't mine. And you know, the first day I'm in there, I look around, I nothing's recognizable and I brought like three frame pictures of my family and that was it. But then I grew to like all the furniture and that was my couch. It became my couch and the bed became my bed. And you know, and I realized it doesn't really matter. I mean, none of this stuff matters since I just never cared about, you know, there, there might be a few like my dad's watch, you know, and I know what I would go and grab and it would be pictures and a couple things from a drawer that I have my dad's watch in it. And my mom's bible that was in German. You know, things that are the only things I have left from my parents because everything was sold in auction. I have a couple little things and that would be it. I don't the rest of it. Get my family out and get my pictures out and I'm cool.
Speaker 2:No, it's great to hear this. It's something that I really struggle with all the time. And I think you'll, you'll know this from when you have young children, you know, there's certain things that they want and they need. So it's trying to sort of, I'm trying to raise a daughter who understands that this, this stuff doesn't really matter and it's transient whilst at the same time, you know, she does want a new Harry Potter show or she wants the new Harry Potter something Lego because she's nine years old, right? And she, she wants these things So it's, it's always a balancing act for me. I struggle with it a little bit.
Speaker 3:It's hard. I don't know what my parents did, but they did a really good job because I never got into like the, I mean, my wife is much more brand conscious like Louis Vuitton and stuff. Now she's not completely materialistic whatsoever, but she's a lot more than me. I mean, if she wants to shop, she wants to hit the top stores. I mean, if I wanna shop, I want to go to like brands for less. I don't know. It was always about making sure you had money and you watched your finances and stuff like that. I mean, I'm not a stylish person at all. I mean, come and look at what I wear wardrobe and you say, God, this guy really needs like a, an upgrade to learn how to buy suits and stuff like that. I don't, because I couldn't have any of it. I had to find a coping mechanism to compete with my richer friends. And the only coping mechanism I had was, was to de ride it. And, you know, just say you're making up for other weaknesses. Like, you got this sports car cause you have other faults in, you're like, it's that kinda like logic.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No, I hear you loud and clear. So I assume that you, you love to read James or you, you have books that have meant something to you. Could you tell us a bit about any books that, you know, perhaps have shaped your life that you give as gifts to other people? Or is there anything that's resonated with you? We love to talk about books on this podcast.
Speaker 3:I do read massively now, the majority of my reading on a daily basis is current events. I'm really up to speed all the time on what's going on. I read new sites primarily and then some sports stuff. I follow certain teams, you know, my, my college team and you know, the teams in my hometown and stuff like that. The books that have, all of the books that have impacted me hugely are biographies, hundred percent or autobiographies of people that I really, really respected and I wanted to learn about. You know, I'm not gonna buy a Kim Kardashian book Okay. Because I don't, I just don't value that business model and what, you know, what she's doing. I mean, somebody's in got a million followers, they can then write book. There are people in the past that, you know, they did for me. They did legendary things and I put their books up on pedestals. So, you know, touch the top of the world by Eric Wine Mayor, the Blind Mountain climber, and a dear friend of mine, a guy I climbed, kill Kilimanjaro and Mul Blanc with this guy is the best of humanity. He's a great human being and he just refuses to accept an obstacle. He's blind, but he'll still do everything that a side person can do. And he's such an inspiration. He wrote a book on his life, uh, called Touch the Top of the World. I mean, that, that was really a game changer for me. You know, famous coaches, Vince Lombardi, the famous American football coach. You know, that book was a page turner. The the jobs book. I was fascinated to read about jobs and you know, right when, right when that came out, right after he died, you know, I bought it hard copy because I wasn't gonna wait for the paperback.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I remember doing the same. I bought it for my husband Ashley. I love autobiographies and biographies too. I think this fact that you can just immerse yourself into somebody's life so completely for, you know, the whole time that you're reading. It's just, especially if it's someone like you say that really inspires you, that you've really, you know, got an interest in I love them.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You know, what makes them tick? What can I learn and reapply in my life? And also learning that while the world makes them, I mean, I would say this like about Mandela's books. I adored the guy, but you know, it also comes out that, and, and that's what makes it again, authentic. The media and the historians can put, make them as almost superhuman. But when you read the books, you know, jobs is quite transparent about his shortcomings. Like how he, he didn't accept his oldest daughter to beginning and he, and you know, he really betrayed her and denied her existence and stuff. I mean, I, okay, I understand and I forgive and you know, he was still a human at the end. And, and how he mistreated a lot of people. He was driven, he created, but he was also quite an at times. And, and it helps to find that there aren't these superhuman people. That they're all perfect. They're, there are, all of us are flawed and it's okay to have your flaws and then that gives you the strength to God and say, you know what? I got weak. I was lonely and I had an affair. And now I'm not asking you to forgive me and say it's all okay, but I am human. I will make mistakes and I will have human tendencies. And so I love autobiographies and, and, but I only buy biographies and autobiographies of people that I really put on a pedestal.
Speaker 2:Of course. Yeah. That's
Speaker 3:Best People are heroes. I don't, I'm not interested in finding out about this politician or this sports that, that I have no respect. I don't really care.
Speaker 2:You didn't read Obama's book,
Speaker 3:Which, uh, I did not read Obama's book. Ok. But I do respect him. It, I think they're just so old now. You know, they were pre 2008. I mean, he put it out before he ran. I was into other books at that time and I just didn't pick it up. I think, you know, to be perfectly honest with you, if Michelle had a new one on her life, I would buy that one first.
Speaker 2:Well, it's funny you say that because she actually has got one out just in time for Christmas. So Yeah, I read her first book, which came out before and now she's got a new one out. I think it's more in the sort of self, self-help space. I don't think it's so much of her story, but her original autobiography I loved, I thought it was such an interesting,
Speaker 3:He's so impressive. Yeah, she is. I did read Shake Mohamed's book.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah. Isn't that fantastic?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's fantastic. I, you know, I have so much respect for him and the leadership here. I mean, it's just so amazing what they've built. You know, there's only two places in the world that have just defied, you know, you know, every Americans tend to think America's like the great story, you know, this relatively young country and coming up and becoming a global power. It's actually not nearly as impressive as the story of, of Dubai and the story of Singapore. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> for both. I've read Lee Hughes, uh, memoirs, who the founder of Singapore. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, I mean, both these places in a 50 year period went from nothing to world class. I mean, it's truly unprecedented. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, you know, America didn't come clean till about hundred 40 years. It's only post wari. And so, you know, it took a long time. And, and I mean, what they have done here is mind blowing. It's an honor to live here and what they've built. And so I wanted to read about, you know, I say, okay, I wanna read about this guy. I wanna read about the story. I wanna learn from this. Yeah. And make my better
Speaker 2:Agree.
Speaker 3:I don't read scifi and stuff like that. You know, I don't, not at all. I used to read novels, but I dropped them. It's more about trying to help myself be better.
Speaker 2:Mm. Agreed. Agreed. And final question before we wrap up, um, and it's quite a big one. Why do you think we're here, James? What's our purpose on this earth?
Speaker 3:Our purpose, my purposes is to leave the world just a little bit better than I found it when I was born. We have all have three choices in life. You can come into the world and make it worse. You can talk about a Hitler or you know, other leaders and we know that made the world, you know, they killed thousands or hundreds of thousands of people, millions of people. They made the world a worse place. That's option one. Option two is you can make no impact whatsoever. You can be self-absorbed and I, I'm all in this life for me and what I can get out of it. And, you know, they don't make really any negative impact with their self-absorption, but they don't make any positive. And then the third is where the special people reside, which is, I wanna make the place a better place. And everything they do, they, they look at it through a different lens. I run a company in this part of the world because I want this part of the world to shine. And I wanna build something that's a publicly traded company that can bring Arab pride and pride in this region and show even that little Jordanian company can make it big and make it global. I coach athletes in the Philippines. Why? Because I believe sports is a nation building tool. And look at what the rocking team did for Morocco and, you know, coaching these guys in the Olympics and having them win medals brings national pride, national dignity, which can help be a, a major glue that builds a nation. And so everything you do, you're trying to make the world better place. And you know, I'm a big believer in random acts of kindness. One of my guys works and calls it positive surprises, which is somebody, they, something happens to'em they weren't expecting and it surprised them. I call random acts of kindness, which is
Speaker 2:How can they manifest for you? Do you tell us about some of those? What what
Speaker 3:Do you do? The big one is, and you know I always do in the holidays, is, is I'm blessed in my life. And when you are blessed or you live in the penthouse of life, so to speak, and I do, I have an obligation to send the elevator back down for more people to get on it and come up. And the big ones is, is using this job to, you know, give people a chance in life that maybe they wouldn't be given a chance because they didn't have the right education for the right cv. You know, my time in B a t I got a call from London one day hr, and they said, there's a demographic in your company of 400 people, we don't get it. And I said, what is it? And they said, 16% of your people are single moms. And I said, yeah, I haven't thought about it, but it makes sense. And they said, why is that? I said, because I only hire on desire people that have desire and the will of to win. I don't interview one like paperwork. I I and who your daddy is I interview on desired. The most motivated, greatest employees I ever meet are are single moms because they're superhuman. They're not even
Speaker 2:My goodness raise
Speaker 3:Kids. They have to raise kids and then they have to like bring food home. They don't have anyone to count on. They're totally self-sufficient running this whole household and this whole operation. They're amazing. And so when I interview people and I ask the same questions around what were the difficult moments in your life? The single moms just win. And it's not something I did consciously, but now that I reflect on it, yeah. We do have a lot of single moms. They're the ones that blow me away. Yeah. And now here in this company, it's all single moms. You know, we're, we're, we're, this building is full of single moms because I interview people and I only interview on who they are. I don't interview on their name and their daddy and their mommy. And do they have a prestigious university degree? What does that human bring being bring to the party and work ethic and desire and willingness to never quit means something. And it's the most important thing of all. And so I don't do it overtly, but we've given so many, I mean, every time there's a sob story and there was a single mom on Facebook that my wife found two boys from South Africa, husband's dead, can't get a job here and all this stuff. Now she's working for me. I took it off Facebook and I interviewed her. I made other people interview her and then we hired her. Mm-hmm. You know, give people a chance. Use this pedestal that I'm on as a, as a basis of change in helping people. I'm, I'm big on going around to the construction sites and other sites, especially on the holidays I'll do, I do have every Christmas with my kids and go and bring food and bring meals and, and bring gift baskets and put a smile on people's faces.
Speaker 2:Makes a big difference.
Speaker 3:Give them a night, give'em a night of grace food and you know, they don't have to worry about some boxed lunch. They get a wonderful meal with Turkey and gravy and you know, the whole bit and give a smile on their face.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna come back to, in Ramadan James, we often do, um, we do a lot for the community.
Speaker 3:We, We do a big meal program with a charity here that I'm thinking they charge us, I don't know, it's like 20 a e d a meal and we buy thousands of them and then all of our employees, we go out and hand them out to the, again, it's typically the construction workers and the folks that are, you know, really doing tough jobs. But I, I love the Ramada giving and, and you know, making, but I also like sustainable, like giving people jobs, you know, make it sustainable. I mean every again, every handicapped person that has gone on Facebook in this town and made a big thing of like, get someone give us a chance. They're always interviewed here and you know, I've been very clear with people, you use this podium of this company to do good in the world. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, not just make money do good in the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Sounds fantastic. And what a really super point to end on. Thank you so much. I feel, um, I feel very uplifted after our conversation. I feel, um, you've been through a huge amount and the fact that you are so, you have this very empathetic mindset and you want to give back is, um, is very inspiring. So I really, really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you. Well thank you.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for listening to the Good Intentions podcast. You can find links to issues and to books that we discussed in the show notes. And you can look for the podcast on Instagram. It's Good Intentions uae. Please do make sure you subscribe to the podcast and if you enjoyed this conversation, I'd so appreciate a review on whatever platform you're using. It helps more people find out about the podcast. See you next time.