The Good Intentions Podcast
Good Intentions connects with experts and storytellers around social impact, psychology, mindfulness, personal growth, and health.
Each conversation unpacks the beliefs and rituals that drive and ground each guest. You will hear about achievements that go beyond the conventional and tangible to a deeper level, finding the meaning and intention behind what we do.
I believe that there is a deep longing in our culture and society for something more: something higher, something deeper. Material possessions and technology do not satisfy our souls. As human beings we long for connection.
I'm on a mission to spread positivity, drive connectivity and to inspire others to live a more meaningful life.
The Good Intentions Podcast
Ep 26 - The Sober Revolution - Erika Doyle
On this episode we speak about a topic very dear to my heart - the zero alcohol revolution. I stopped drinking alcohol in 2017, and it was a truly life changing and momentous decision. I’m always passionate to talk about how embracing a sober lifestyle can impact positively on your world, and the world around you.
So you can imagine how excited I was to speak to Erika Doyle, zero alcohol champion here in the UAE. Erika is proud to be the driving force behind the UAE’s first and only premium non-alcoholic drinks marketplace, Drink Dry.
Erika’s Drink Dry journey began in 2015 when she decided to give up alcohol to start a family. She moved to the UAE just a few years later and found there was a gap in the market for non-alcoholic drinks in the region and the Drink Dry store was born.
The one stop shop caters to those wanting to either reduce or eliminate their alcohol intake and indulge in a variety of premium non-alcoholic hops and grapes, spirits and cocktails.
What started as an e-store, is now a firm mainstay in the retail and hospitality sector across the UAE with expansion plans into Kuwait and KSA this year.
Erika is a busy working mum, juggling three children with a successful business, so I was keen to understand how she manages to stay focused, efficient and resilient.
We talked about the positive impact of cutting down or cutting out alcohol, the insidious nature of ‘mummy wine’ culture and how community is crucial when starting an alcohol free journey.
We also talked about making a difference in our lives and the world around us and I found Erika’s grounded and compassionate approach very relatable and inspiring. I’m sure you will too - please enjoy our conversation.
Follow me, and the Good Intentions podcast:
https://www.instagram.com/kellyharvarde/
https://www.instagram.com/goodintentionsuae/
Find Erika and the Drink Dry store here:
https://drinkdrystore.com/
https://www.instagram.com/drinkdrystore/
https://www.instagram.com/erika_drinkdry/
Immerse yourself in some of the books we discussed:
Michelle Obama - Becoming
https://magrudy.com/author/michelle-obama/
Michelle Obama - Becoming - For Younger Readers
https://www.amazon.ae/Becoming-Adapted-Readers-Michelle-Obama/dp/0593303741/
Welcome to good intentions, the podcast where we explore the world around us to find meaning and intention in what we do. I'm Kelly Harvard, and I'm on a mission to spread positive stories that will inspire you to live a more meaningful and connected life. On this episode, we speak about a topic very dear to my heart, the zero out whole revolution. I stopped drinking alcohol back in 2017, and it was a truly life changing andous decision. I'm always passionate to talk about how embracing a sober lifestyle can impact positively on your world and the world around you. So you can imagine how excited I was to speak to Erica Doyle. Zero alcohol champion here in the UAE. Erica is proud to be the driving force behind the UAEs first and only premium non-alcoholic drinks. Marketplace drink dry Erica's drink. Dry journey began in 2015. When she decided to give up alcohol to start a family, she moved to the UAE just a few years later and found there was a gap in the market for non-alcoholic drinks in the region. And the drink dry store was born. Erica is a busy working mom, juggling three children with a successful business. So I was keen to stand how she manages to stay focused, efficient and resilient. We talked about the positive impact of cutting down or cutting out alcohol, the insidious nature of mommy wine culture and how community is crucial when starting an alcohol free journey. We also talked about making a difference in our lives and the world around us, and I found Erica's grounded and compassionate approach, very relatable and inspiring. I'm sure you will too. Please enjoy our conversation.
Speaker 2:So thanks so much for joining me on good intentions, Erica. It's great to see you.
Speaker 3:Pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2:I'm super, I've been dying to talk to you for ages, cause I have a very personal vested interest in what you do and, and your brand, and I'm a regular customer as well. So it's just really quite thrilling.
Speaker 3:I think I've seen your name pop up a few times, like an order comes in and I'm like, oh, Kelly's ordering again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm always there. I'm always there. I'm sure we're gonna come onto the reasons why as well. So, um, before we get into sort of the business side of things and the sort of topic that we're gonna explore today, could you just tell me, like what brought you to the UAE in the first place? Cause I'm always interested to know how people ended up here.
Speaker 3:My husband has a business here and he's had a business here since 2008. And then I think the first time I made a trip to Dubai was in 2012. And ever since then we'd come and spend maybe two, three months at a time or two, three weeks at a time, go back and back, go back and back. So we had a lot of friends here. We knew Dubai. Well, we knew my favorite place to go eat. We knew what we liked about Dubai, what we didn't like about Dubai. And then, uh, I had my first daughter in 2017 and then okay. With one, it was still possible to do that kind of plane hopping for a while. And then I got pregnant with my second one. And then after I had her, it was just too difficult to kind of accompany my husband on any of the trip. So we then didn't do that for a few years. But then in 2019 we kind of thought, okay, you know, we want to be together as a family. I don't wanna spend too much time apart from my husband. And he didn't wanna spend too much time away from the kids. So we then made a family decision to go to Dubai. And I knew that Dubai, when you come and visit or when you're a tourist and you stay in the marina and you're out all the time, it's a very different Dubai when you live in Dubai. You know? So we moved to the ranches. My kids go to locals nursery and all of a sudden the life selling Dubai is very different to the one that we've kind of seen beforehand. So we've now been here three years.
Speaker 2:Wow. I bet it's blown by as well. Right? Dubai time in Dubai is different time in other places. I feel, I feel it goes faster. I
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and you know, I was no exception and I was one of those people who said, I'm here for two years and I remember, I know you laughed. And for the first 12 months I didn't bother buying a dining table. I made a nice enough home that my kids felt at home and it was nice and homely, but I didn't invest too much in it because I still had still have a house in the UK and I was going back home. And then as the kind of second year creed up on us and I, I was in the process of starting to drink dry. I think I had officially established the business here, like opened a trade license and everything. And I was like, actually like, as I'm becoming closer to the time of making a decision staying or going, I was like, why would I go? Like, why would I go? So we didn't. And then we stayed and I think just bought a house here. And I think we here for some time
Speaker 2:Amazing. You made me laugh with your dining room comment because, um, for a very long time I had no pictures on the walls. I remember, you know, I had, I had a nice enough home, but it kind of looked a bit like a prison cell because it is literally white and there were always white walls in Dubai. Right. So it took me, gosh, I think at least two might have even been three years before I even, well obviously, and get the drill out, but the drill came out and someone helped me to put the pictures up. But yeah, that whole kind of feeling very, um, not disconnected, but just, yeah, I just, it's just temporary. Right? It's not something that's permanent. And I think a lot of people can relate to that, which is really interesting. So you mentioned drink dry, which I'm super interested in. Tell us about it. Like why did you start it? What, what's the rationale behind it? What is it tell, okay.
Speaker 3:I think it sort of goes back to about 2015. I'm gonna say my husband is actually in alcohol industry. So we've always had really nice wines in the house. You know, we've always been very familiar with new products that were coming out, et cetera, et cetera. We weren't ever massive drinkers. I think on looking back, probably enjoyed the wine too often. Now, when I think to be drinking wine three nights a week is probably too excessive. And anyway, in about 2015, really desperately wanted to have a family and we've been trying for a few years and it just wasn't happening. And long story short, we tried different things. We got tested and there was no obvious reason why we couldn't have children. And my wonderful GPB just said, go back to basic, sleep more, eat better, cut out alcohol exercise more. And just in general, like give your body a break and nourish it and see what happens, let your body do the trick. So I did, and it was very kind of easy motivation. It was very easy decision to make. So I gave up alcohol in 2015. At that point, I think it was really luck. Keep timing because the brands like seed li and some really good quirky on alcoholic beers were coming out into the market. So we were the first T tranch of the Guinea pigs kind of, of the non out revolution. And it was really exciting cause I, all of a sudden didn't feel left out. You know, we were going to different parties and we still loved socializing and we still continued having a really full social life. You know, I still had people over and were making cocktails. I was just making mine with C living on all other drinks that were coming then. So that kind of continued for about a year. And in that pro in that time, my husband gave up alcohol as well. And then I got pregnant with my first daughter. I had her. And then as the kind of years went on, the more drinks were coming into the market. And it was something that we were mega excited all the time because we'd be, oh, did you see something else's now into the market? And now they have this amazing sparking wine. And now they have this apples brittle alternative, and now they have X Y's head. And for me it just, you know, I, I was really lucky to then went on to have another two little girl. So I have three girls altogether now. And there's just, you know, with busy parenting, busy lifestyle, busy jobs, there's just no room in my life for feeling on top of my game. Like whether I'm a parent or at work, I wanna be on top of my game the whole time. If I'm out with friends, I wanna make sure that I'm sharp and I'm enjoying myself. I'm not tired or lagging from the night before. So I, I never went back to alcohol. And when we moved to Dubai in 2019, it was really sad because I remember going to my local supermarket and kind of heading for the beverage aisle and thinking, oh, I'm really excited because every time I traveled to new countries, I'd go and see what's out there in supermarket. Like, you know, you go to Spain and you see like they had different non-alcoholic BES or different wines. So I remember making a trip to supermarket here. I was just kinda was standing there going, surely this can't be it. Like this just can't be it. You know, I've
Speaker 2:Done exactly the same. Exactly the same experience. It's yeah. 45. Durhams for what is essentially sparkling apple juice. It tastes like apple juice as well. Some of the ones you, right,
Speaker 3:Correct. Correct. And I didn't even buy those things that are kind of what I call imposter products in the category. Like, you know, sparkling sugary, apple juice in a champagne shaped bottle. Cuz I, I look on the label and be like, nah, this is apple juice. I'm not buying it. Not even for the money or anything. I don't wanna drink it. So then I kind of were moaned and complained and moaned and I said, this is ridiculous. I can't believe this is, you know, not happening. And every time I traveled back home, I'd stock up and bring my favorite kind of non-alcoholic drinks. And then I think it was beginning off 2020. So one year had passed. We bought our dining table. So that was a clear sign that we were staying. We were staying put. And I, I thought, okay, you know, my two girls are now probably one and two and a half. I was ready to do something. And that's when I thought, okay, well I will start a small eCommerce business. We'll bring in some non-alcoholic products. And I'm sure that there are other people out there who are looking to either moderate sometimes or who are non drinkers looking full time enjoy. And it kind of never, I don't think I ever expected it to be such a tied into such a big, wonderful business. And then to start with, I think we, we established the business in February, 2020, and then obviously the pandemic hit. So we pause it in terms of launching it. We didn't like go live and didn't tell the world about drink dry. But it was really almost like a blessing in disguise because there were other hurdles that we didn't foresee such as making the products all compliant. And as a customer, you probably will have seen, like we only pick up our bottles. Like it has all the Arabic wordings and labels and we don't call things alcohol free. We call them alcohol Freemont drink because we worked so closely with the authorities here to make sure that we were the first people in the market to bring in something that looked and tasted like alcohol, but it wasn't. So we had to work with them to make sure that what we were putting on the shelves in retail and supermarkets didn't offend anyone that what it said on the package, it was clear to everybody what it was. So that took a of time and it was good that we didn't have to rush it and we had everybody's attention. So I think that was the big bulk of that work was done in 2020 while the world was kind of trying to find its feets again. And then we got the products into the market and we launched December, 2020 and the rest is history.
Speaker 2:We heard that there's so much coming out now, now that we're kind of almost exiting COVID. I mean, I know it's still with us, but you know, we're kind of coming we're at the tail end. I think it is fair to say. And you know, all the sort of lockdowns that we went through, you know, that there's been a lot of talks. Things are coming to light now about, you know, the negative aspects of being locked down, whether it's mental health, whatever, whatever. And one of the big things is that everybody seems to been drinking more when they were locked down. I mean, it was even on, um, I dunno if you watched the, uh, and just like that, which was the follow up to sex in the city, one of the main characters actually developed a, a drinking problem during lockdown. So do you think in a way that's kind of, sort of, I mean, I've got lots of questions about sort of people's attitudes to alcohol, but do you think sort of with your launch time, that kind of helped a bit that people sort of suddenly thinking, okay, I've been doing this for a long time, perhaps it's time to change. Were people having that sort of mental shift or was it, did you not notice anything?
Speaker 3:I think for us looking back in hindsight, you know, it's a wonderful thing, but I think for us, it was the perfect storm in many, many ways. The, the time that we launched December, 2020 as we kind of went into post Christmas period where people over indulge just over and on top of everything, they were looking for alternatives. We had an incredible first month of trading. We didn't anticipated, you know, we had to fly in the stock because we just sold out so much faster than we anticipated. So I think the, the 2020, the year of when, when code kind of first hit the world was the year where we just gave up a bit and had a bit too much drank a bit too much, you know, and did all the things didn't exercise enough, just didn't have motivation enough. Cause we had resilient features, right? So as we had to sort of find a way out of it, we started to look alternatives. And 2021 was the year where people decided to do so about their health, about their physical, mental health. That was a wonderful year for us and it, our product range and, and the idea behind ring dry fitted the year very well.
Speaker 2:Mm, absolutely. And I also, I mean, obviously January as well as the time, right. Where people are sort of looking at some new year's resolutions, I, I'm not a massive fan of resolutions, but obviously there's dry January. There's sober spring. It's a really good time. And people are sort of looking to sort of make changes. I stopped drinking in 2017. So yeah, I, and I'd gone through exactly the same process that you mentioned. It had been Christmas, I'd been partying. I'd been out, I'd been connecting with people. I'd been sat in the garden, but by the time it came to January, the first I was so ready, I was like, I just, if I don't see another glass of wine again, it will be too soon. And then went through the whole dry January process and then was like, actually I feel quite good now. So I'm just gonna keep it going. And I really only intended to do it for maybe like three months or something. I don't know. I wasn't sure, but I, I definitely wasn't thinking like this is it forever, but then like the whole sort of roller coaster of support. And I think 2017, a couple of really good books came out. There was the unexpected joy of being sober. A lot of people found out about the naked mind book by any grace. Like I think it was coming into people's consciousness a lot more. And now, like you say, there's actually, there's a lot more openness around it and people are, whether it is moderating or, you know, not drinking at all, you know, whatever it is. I think people are more and sort of talking about it, which is great. So I'm interested in what you said earlier, Erica, about sort of having, when you had kids that made you think like, I need to be at the top of my game, I can't drink anymore. But so many of the messages around that around alcohol, you know, we are sold a lie. It's all around like mommy wine culture, right? It's like, you need this to help you. And I definitely heard this a lot when my daughter was small, she didn't sleep and I went back to work and it was like, you know, this is my reward at the end of the day for a really hard day. I mean, how do you feel about that sort of mommy wine culture and, and the messages that it's giving to women,
Speaker 3:Mommy, wine culture. To me, it's like giving a hyperactive child a load of sugar and sending them to bed and expecting them to go to sleep whenever that's how I see it. It's the complete opposite of what we should be doing and all forward, because parenting is the hardest thing I have ever done. Hands down, hands down, any job I've had, parenting is so much harder. So there absolutely has to be a reward, but the reward has to be in a form of something that makes you feel good mentally and physically because you know, alcohol is, uh, I mean in moderation, there's, there's no harm in it, but if your child is not sleeping at night and you have one in the evening and you go to bed, your body can't rest because scan has toxics in it. You are groggy. You're not patient, you're not on top of your game. And for me personally, it's the morning after it doesn't matter much. I drank alcohol. Well, it's a glass, generally, a glass of wine or two or three. I felt off like I just felt off. I was not patient. I wasn't chatty. I just felt, you know, mad. So for me, I think it's unfair. I think we live really busy lives and our kids already suffer because they don't see us enough. Like, you know, I remember obviously, so my mom was a stay at home mom for much, much longer than I was. So I really gotta spend a lot of time with my mom. And, and so did she with her own mom and, but things have changed and it is what it is. It's not a bad thing. It's just the reality that we all go back to work. We do what we have to do. So when that is your reality for me having those few hours in the day that I spend with my kids is so precious, it's so precious. And I wanna make sure that when they wake up, I'm there with a smile cuz I had a good night's sleep that I'm rested, that I'm full of energy. That I have time to answer a million wise and a million Watts million who's I'm not snapping at them because my patient's slow as it is. So if I'm then affected by anything and you know, I remember when I had my third little girl and going through those early sleepless nights, I would be snappy with my other two the next morning because I was tired, but I knew consciously that they will pass this nice. And I will go back to normal happy mommy. So I think the, the mum wine culture, it's the absolutely wrong message that we're giving out to mums. The message should be mum, me time, mummy, happy time, mommy, reward time and encourage mums to do other things. You know, and if you're not into exercise, have a bath. If you're not into reading a book, go full, whatever it is that gives you that bit of a head space and quiet time when you're not answering a million wise, that that should be the message, not put some toxins in your body that will make you feel worse the next day and expect you to function even better the next day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree. And um, yeah, I'm hands up. Someone that doesn't have a huge amount of patience in it's. Um, probably one of my, my brand values is that I'm not a hugely patient patient person. Cause partly because of the life I lead is fast. I don't have time to wait for things, but yeah, I did feel there was something quite liberating and that look, I still get impatient with my daughter. I still get impatient with my husband, but there's a freedom in knowing that that's not because I've got a bit of a hangover or it's not, cause I've got a drink that's me. So then, okay. Why, why am I feeling like that? Why am I acting like that? How can I work on that? Whereas before I would always be sort of rattled with guilt about, okay, is that cause I had that glass of wine or is that cause I went to that bar last night, like, oh, oh, you know, should I be drinking this constant internal dialogue about alcohol? Whereas now I'm like, okay, it's, it's take alcohol out the equation. It's really a liberating feeling. Still getting patient. I have to say. But yeah. Your sort of personal journey with alcohol, how has it fluctuated then? So is it been, was it a cha you said it's quite easy at first, right? You had, you had a big reason to stop. Has that kinda changed over time? You know, have you ever thought, oh, maybe I'll stop a couple of wine again. I'm really interested to know.
Speaker 3:So when I, when I first gave, I had a clear goal, I wanted to have a baby that was like above everything else. So it wasn't difficult at all. And then Jane was pregnant and then I had my baby and I think I got pregnant the second time when my first one was six months old. So there's really no time to think about, am I ever gonna drink or odd? And then, uh, I think there was a two year gap between my second and third, possibly at that point, people were saying like, so you ever gonna go back to drinking? And I remember saying to people, I will, if I go to a dinner party and somebody cracks open and astonishingly expensive, amazing bottle of wine, I absolutely will. And that was kind of like my get out, like, you know, which I thought this is it. And funny enough, two weeks ago I went to a dinner party and somebody packed, open a bottle of, um, chat mood on Rosschild. Wow. And I sat there and it was about 10 o'clock by that point. And I had a super important meeting next day at eight 30 in the morning. And I was already tired from the week of girl food. So I was sort of sitting there half morning thinking I'm really ready to go home. And they just crack open this bottle of, and I was like, oh, this is that moment. I've been telling everybody like, you know, if it happens, I will happily enjoy a glass of wine. And I was actually drinking a glass of wine. Non-alcoholic red wine, that's a host, very kindly bought and had ready for me. And I just thought, and I laughed internally. I thought, no, I still don't want to, like, I just don't want to, it doesn't matter what it is like how expensive or how exclusive this product is. This wine is like, I just have better things to do tomorrow. So I'm just gonna say no. So I didn't. And has it been difficult? I think the more new products come into the non-alcoholic drinks category, the less difficult it is because I genuinely, genuinely don't feel like I, I ever miss out. I absolutely still get that feeling on a Thursday evening when I get in and I've had a busy week and I, the kids are in bed and I think just wanna sit in the garden on my own, have a glass per Secco and just Ugh, unwind. And I do exactly that. I go to my fridge, open the fridge, get a bottle of alcohol free per Secco. That to me say exactly the same. And you know, I know that my customers say the same and I have that ritual. I have exactly that ritual and I then get on my evening and I get on with my day, the next day. And I think it's part of whenever people ask me, you know, how did you do it? Or what advice do you have for people? I always say, just stock up on non-alcoholic drinks. It's that simple, have a few options available, you know, a house ready, chilled, ready to go. So when you get in one day and you think, ah, a really fancy having a drink, but I don't actually want to have the effects the next day, just opt for alcohol free one and see how you feel the next day, because the chances are from what I've seen that the next day people will you'll feel so great about your choice. And I, before that, you'll do that again and again and again, and maybe the weekend comes and you'll go out and you'll, you know, have a wild night with your friends. And that's great that no harm in that, but it's doing that making different choice every now and again, that's where I think the is
Speaker 2:Definitely, it's funny. You really made me laugh with your, um, one day I might have a drink story. I, at the very beginning, I did have a couple of people, but when I was kinda like, you know, like sort of feeling my way through it, myself and I can remember some of my friends would send, they were always very supportive in the main, I do remember one friend sending me some brunch or night out or something, just a link. And she was like, when you start drinking again, we can go to this place. And at that point I was already sort of like, I don't think I'm going to start drinking again, if I can avoid it because my life is so much better without it. It was interesting. There, there was an assumption that some point I would start again and yeah, I think it's, it is quite a big decision depending on, I mean, depending obviously on everybody, you, your individual choices are individual choices, but I think if you are, you know, I'm British. Um, I work in PR from a very young age, you know, alcohol has been part of my life when I tell people I don't drink. They're genuinely shocked quite a lot of the time, especially people like that. You're British, everyone in Britain loves to drink. I'm like, yeah, they do. So, yeah, it's quite a big cultural shift. So, um, that really made me laugh about your bottle of story. And I'm glad that you didn't do I think the next day,
Speaker 3:But I didn't. And it was, it was actually so easy. I was kind of like, I was like, this is the crossroad. Cause I always said like, this would be the moment that I would, and maybe under different circumstances, you know, if it was the weekend and maybe I would've had a glass wine, but I just feel like there are so many good alternatives out there that I really, I swear, I didn't feel like I was missing out because I had my glass red wine. I was having fantastic time. I was having nice food and I didn't feel like I was missing out one bit. And I think that's the key of kind of, if you're not feeling like you're missing anything, why you go looking for something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And what's your favorite part about not drinking alcohol? Is it the lack of hangers it or is it just the clarity or getting stuff done?
Speaker 3:All of it. I think it kind of all leads from one thing to another, you know, I think initially I always thought I, I said, well, I always just say like, I sleep like a baby. I could fall sleep anywhere. Like I had no problems of going off to sleep or I'd never wake up in the night. But I realized that when I, when I gave up alcohol that my, my body actually rested in the night, I think after a couple of weeks of being alcohol free, that's when I really noticed different because I'd still go like quite a few nights without the alcohol before. But when I went truly like few weeks or, or maybe two or three weeks without the alcohol, that's when I noticed that my body just used to go into this lovely restful sleep at night. And then I just naturally wake up without alarm, without anything in the morning and feel like, wow, I feel fully rested. I'm full of energy. I started exercising that I, you know, I'm still very active now. And that only started when I kind of went because I had so much more than I ever did before. And it's all of it. Loads of energy patience. I'm a much nicer person. I'm just a much nicer patient person. I'm much better at my decision making. I don't hesitate. I don't think twice I'm sharper. And I think one of the, I see the biggest change in, uh, a lot of my peers who are in the early thirties who are going through that huge career kind of like making phase right now. Cause I have to say probably over 90% of my friends are now alcohol free, nothing to do with me, nothing, but just by association, maybe I just now attract people like that. I dunno what it is, but huge, huge circle of my friends are acquaintances are non drinkers or people who choose to be non drinkers. And I see a huge shift in those people who are in that kind of, I'd say really most important part of their career where they're really trying to make a name for themselves. They're working all the hours under the sun because they have to make that break and the ones who have gone alcohol free, they can just do it, you know, without killing themselves in the process, they are conscious of the mental health. They can take a break when they have to, and they're doing it for the right reasons. And they're still able to maintain that balance of work and personal life.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's so interesting. Isn't it? Like couldn't agree more cause yeah. I just like yes, yes. To all of that. Yeah. I think it kind of, it gets in your way a lot, maybe a lot more than you realize. I mean, I'm still not a great sleeper, to be honest, without alcohol for sort over four years. But, and I only slept for about four hours last night and yeah, I got up this morning, did the school run, went for a run run and then days work the thought of doing that if I'd have had like, you know, a couple, my glasses of wine the night before it just wouldn't have happened. I no way, you know, I would've done the school run. I would've been fine to do that, but I would, I have then gone and run along the beach. No way. There's just, even, even when I'm tired, I have much more motivation and energy to get things done. And I always say, I can't remember who said it originally, this is not my quote, but I always feel really just when I see alcohol, no issue with anybody else that wants to drink, you know, my husband still drinks loads of my friends drink. I just look at it and just think I'm just grateful that I don't have to do that anymore. Like I just feel happy that it's not something that I do. So I just feel very like calm about so
Speaker 3:Yeah, I fully agree with you, but you know, it's funny because I dunno why this, because what I do would drink dry and the fact that people trust me, like the alcohol free options in my house are good. Whenever we have barbecues or get togethers at my house or lunches or Christmas lunch or anything at all, I always cater for people. So whether they're vegan, vegetarian meat, eaters, drinkers, non drinkers, doesn't matter to me. I always have a choice because I like to be the best host that I can. Right. So if people are coming to my house, you know, I always have beers and more and alcoholic ones available for them. But it just, so it happens when people come to my house, they're like, actually, you know, cause I'm here, like I'm gonna try one of your drinks. I'm gonna try something. And very rarely do them. People go and say, well actually next time I'll have alcohol. Most of the time people go, no, this is actually very good. I'm happy to stick to it for the rest of the day. And then, you know, they don't have to have and get any safe drivers. They can just hop back in their car and get home. Or if they have kids, you know, they don't have to worry about having want too many while they're with their kids or it's maybe because they know that I have these amazing options available for them to try. And it's a good opportunity for them to try. Yeah,
Speaker 2:Definitely. Your house sounds amazing food and drink. Now. I'm not, I'm going for an, um, but I mean, if you wanna invite me, that's fine. But yeah, no, I really agree. And I'm really interested in what you were saying about, you know, some of your friends not drinking now as well. I think as I've got older, I'm seeing definitely my friends and my colleagues, people are drinking. Some are drinking more, but a lot of drinking, less, a lot of people, a lot of people are a lot more sober, curious as well. So I will often get people. I mean, sometimes even strangers sort of caught comment or message me on Instagram cuz they know I don't drink asking me about it, which I think is really refreshing and this whole sort of community around it. I wanted to ask you how important you think community is. If you're gonna live an alcohol free life. And are, are you seeing that with the sort of community that you're building around drink dry as well?
Speaker 3:It's absolutely key because like with anything you want to exchange views, opinions, obstacles, victories, anything in between with others. So it's absolutely key the way the kind of, for me, the way the on our trends went Dubai, last year we launch string dry and we had the grand total of five products in our range. And then for the first few months after that people were saying, oh, when are you bringing still wines? When are you bringing this? When are you bringing this? When are you bringing this? So people were asking about the product specific. They wanted to enjoy a wider range, say fast forward six months. And we had the full range. People could literally go on our platform and choose anything from different BS to wines, to cocktail making kind of products, anything and anything in between. Then the next questions kind of set of questions we started getting from our customers is where can I now go out and enjoy these things because I'm will enjoying it at home. But actually now I'm gonna go out with my friends and on Tuesday night and I wanna choose a venue that we can go out everybody's for, including me. So we really focus. We invested business, we brought in a sales team and we went out there and planted our products into as many places as we can weds are available. Cause we in sober, we now have about hundred venues in Dubai stocking our products and anything, anything from small vegan cafes to kinda five star restaurants and hotels, which is awesome. So the
Speaker 2:Really Roberto you're in Roberto, I seem to remember. Yeah, yeah. I see you on a menu. I'm always squeaking cause yeah. Exciting with your so if I can go and have like a, you know, something that is non-alcoholic then it's, it's much more fun.
Speaker 3:Exactly. So we try to make sure that we kinda sit down and go, right? Where do we need to be geographically? So for those who are ina bin ranches, we are in Mason, Matis, you know, a sort of family friendly place for those who are in the I C we are in BCA Robertos Aly, Gaia, you know, kind of different products in different places. We're in world of Astoria. But equally then we are in 11 wood fire, which is a new unlicensed place and just vegan cafes across the Dubai kind of really varied range of, of venues that we stock our drinks in. And then the final kind of round of questions we are getting from our customers is about community and experiences that they can do with alcohol free drinks. It's no longer enough for people to go out somewhere that alcohol is not present. They now want to purposely go out and do things where they can enjoy alcohol free drinks. Okay. So that's why we now as business, we do kind of probably monthly different tastings. So we just last, we launched our new product and we did a tasting last week where we invited our customers. They could get, you know, kind of firsthand experience, try the products, see what they think, give us their feedback. Then I think next month we'll do, we'll do our wine tasting again, where we invite customers, come and try it for those who think, ah, I really wanna try an on alcoholic wine, but I'm not sold on the idea yet. This is why we are doing it. That people can come and enjoy it. And then they meet different people. You know? And the most fascinating thing about these kind of little meets is you have different genders, different age groups are nationalities, different stories, different countries, different reasons why people are non drinkers and it's the most eclectic mix of people you could imagine. And I remember when we first did our market research into non-alcoholic in the UAE, we, we actually made a mistake as a business and we segmented our customers into your typical classic nationality, age group, gender ethnicity, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's not how it works at all in an non-alcoholic because our marketing wasn't working to how we wanted it to work. We realized we are not targeting the right people or we're not sending out the right messages to them. So then kind of thought, okay, we need to just forget everything we've learned and start again. And then a guy who was the head of strategy from Sati and Sati actually came in and said, you're doing it all wrong. You need to understand people's why are people not drinking? Is it religious reason because they are into their wellness or is it because they're currently trained for marathon? So they're, you know, the fitness gets in the way of the drinking. Are they expecting, are they young with the lack of patience under the belt? Are they kind of top performing business professionals who need to be on top of their game? So once we kind of cemented our customers into why and reasons why they are customers, it became a lot easier to communicate with them and to fill them and touch them and to understand who they are and, you know, bring in the products and do the right events for that. So yeah, community is, is critical here for, for it to succeed. It's critical and on alcoholic drinks are still niche. It's not a trend or fad that is gonna come and go. It's here to stay, but it's still not mainstream. It's still niche. And until it becomes mainstream, you need to have a small community. You need to have people share their experiences and so on. So we've actually just started a Facebook group called live dry Dubai because we thought, well, this is it. I'm a huge, huge advocate for transparency. And I think one of the biggest hurdles we have with alcohol free drinks that we bring in is people's opinion of the whole catch. And I get it, I get it, I get it. I get it because I remember where, you know, in 2015, 90% of the drinks I bought in my local supermarket from non-alcoholic section were atrocious and I pulled them down the same. So the cash itself has a terrible name. So when I say to people, non-alcoholic wine, they'll go, oh, that must be disgusting. It must taste like VGO, it must taste like this, but it's now, you know, the technology has moved and the ways of producing these drinks have evolved and the products are phenomenal. You know, they're really, really good. So we wanted to create a space where people can share their experiences. And if somebody doesn't like something by all means, let others know why you didn't like it because it's being transparent because I know that vast, vast, vast majority of our customers are surprised when they try the drinks and they go, my goodness, this is so much better than I thought it will be. And that's why we created the, the, the sort of Facebook coming where people can share these experiences. And you know, if somebody, if we launch a new product and somebody goes, I'm not sure I wanna spend a hundred serums on this new bottle that I dunno what it is. I'm just gonna quickly ask my fellow dry drinkers. Has anybody tried X, Y, Z, what do you think about it? And then people give them opinion and then they can make a choice for themselves whether to buy it or not.
Speaker 2:Sounds great. I'm all about the community. So I'll, I'll get the exact address from you more put it in the show notes, cause I'm sure people wanna check. I found it really refreshing to say, when you were talking about all the different reasons, why people might not drink, you know, health, wellness, or not once did you say because they have a problem with alcohol. And I find it really interesting that if people know you don't drink quite often, people be like, oh, did you have a problem? Is that why you have? I think that the word alcoholic is like really problematic because people think that you have to be at that kind of, you know, that very typical rock bottom, you know, glass of wine in the morning, or, you know, drinking your mouthwash, you know, the whole, and I'm not saying that there are, you know, okay, alcoholism exists. But I think this sort of gray area drinking where people are perhaps, you know, and they're not at rock bottom, but they want to stop and they wanna make changes, I think is something that sort of perhaps needs to be discussed a bit more. And, and that I don't find the term alcoholic helpful at all. And I wondered what, how you about it and, and what your thoughts were on that.
Speaker 3:I think we made a decision as a business consciously very early on that people who are recovering alcoholics, we don't want to target them without marketing. If they come and buy from us, that's fantastic. If that's the right thing for them, that's absolutely fine. I've done enough research to know that sometimes it can be a trigger. Sometimes it's not the right thing to do. So we don't market our product to any recovery groups or people who are in AA or anything like that. I think that's entirely up to them. What we do do is we tell about our products to people who we think fit that reason. Why, if there are a mom, you know, with three young kids kind of wanting to have a bit of a break from alcohol and a clear ahead, that's right. Customer for us to say, Hey, look, we have these amazing drinks for you. They will help you feel whatever you wanna feel and off you go. So I know what you feel about the term alcohol and people do naturally assume that if you don't drink alcohol, that you would've had a problem or you do have a problem. But I think even that is changing. I had you ask me that three, four years ago, straight away when I'm at a new person or a new group of people and be like, oh no, thank you. I'm not, not drinking. Oh, right. Okay. Okay. Fine. Okay. You know, you get that kind look and go. But I think now it is changing. It's whether I'm more confident about my choices in life, because now people go, all right. Okay. Well, most of the time, whenever I go, particularly other people's houses, if I go somewhere and I say, I'm not drinking, they go, all right. Okay. Well, lemme see what I have. And sometimes they have some non-alcoholic options, not necessarily the ones that I think are very good, but despite the fact they have a non-alcoholic beer in the fridge, you know, which is great. Or they have a non-alcoholic G or some sort, you know, so people are getting more aware that people give up alcohol for many, many, many, many other reasons other than just having an alcohol problem and it will get better and better. It's a bit like I don't actually find it helpful comparing alcohol free industry with alcohol industry. I don't like to draw powers there. I much, I feel much happier, more comfortable comparing alcohol free G to vegan food or dairy free milks or anything other that is an alternative to the mainstream. We don't frown upon people who go, or I'm not gonna drink coffee. I'm gonna go for decaf today. Or no, actually I'm gonna go from beyond meat burger today because we all know the reasons why it's good for you. It's good for environment, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I'm hopeful that in time, the same thing will happen with alcohol free drinks that people won't just straight away associated with alcohol. They'll see more of an alternative lifestyle choice.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's really, really great way of thinking about things and sort of, as you said, it is becoming, it may be niche, but it's definitely becoming a lot more mainstream. You know, we even see, you know, big, big celebrities like Chrisy Tegan, who is, you know, famously not drinking and hasn't drunk for quite some time and was very open and honest about her reasons for stopping and her journey along with that. And there's, there's been quite a few celebs since done as well. So, I mean, do you, do you ever see a difference when, you know, someone announces something like that or it becomes quite topical, does that sort of affect your sales or is it, is it more or less consistent away from all of
Speaker 3:That? I don't think so. I think the most powerful tool is when somebody around you and in your close environment makes a change and you see the positive results that has the most impact on you for me, for sure. I have a couple friends of mine who in the last five years gave up meat very gradually. And I've watched that transition in them. They lost weight. They say they feel better. You know, whenever I go to the house, they've got this amazing aunt based food and that has inspired me. So in the last few years, I've put things in place in my household where we'd an awful lot less meat than we ever did before. And we are more adventurous with our plant based food. And I allow my kids not to eat their meat if they don't want to. Whereas before I'm, you know, I'm missing European, I was brought up on, on meat potato and some veg. And if you didn't eat your meat, you didn't leave the table. And I kind of started my parenting in that same style, but now I'm like, you don't feel like eating meat, no problem. Like if you don't want to, you don't have to eat it. So I think the same with alcohol free, if somebody near you or in your close environment makes that change and goes alcohol free, whether it's moderating or full time as such, and you see the positive results it has on their lifestyle, that has more impact on you than seeing some celebrity give something up.
Speaker 2:Yeah. True. It's, it's your own sort of closer personal connections, isn't it? And yeah, as I mentioned earlier, I definitely see people come to me and ask me about it that are curious about it. I mean, not that I'm, you know, this hugely influential person, but within myself, people more and more are starting to ask me about it. So you're right. It does.
Speaker 3:But you probably are. You are more than you think so in your circle of people, you know, because as I always say to my girls, people are watching you, you know, and your kind gesture to a friend in the playground, Matt is more than you think because other children are watching you and seeing what you do. So the same in our life as adults, what we do, it's not just impacting the other person that we do that for. It's other people watching us as well. So, you know, if you work in an office and you have massive Christmas due and all 30 people drank the night before, and you're the only one who didn't, then you come to the office next day. And you're the one who's, who's got a spring in their app and bouncing into the office and going, Hey guys, what a great fun we had last night. And everybody else is like, kind of like, you know, with, with Paramo and coffee on their table, one or two would look at you and think I want a bit of what she's got and next time I'm gonna not drink because I don't wanna feel like this next morning. So I think you have a lot more impact in your environment and people that surround you, then you think,
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so interesting. Yeah, I really agree. So this podcast is called good intentions. You know, it's all about trying to sort of set some intentions for ourselves. You mentioned you've got three children. Dunno how you do it. Um, how do you manage to, or how do you try to stay sort of to what's important to you? I mean, how aside from the not drinking, which obviously gives you a superpower, but, um, you know, how do you kind of manage to stay connected and grounded amidst all of this craziness?
Speaker 3:I really don't beat myself up. I'm one of those people who my best is enough. If I know, and I truly know that I did my best, whatever it is at work with my kids, if I did my best and that's enough. And if I didn't, then I say, sorry, and I move on. You know, I don't have time to dwell on things or anything like that. I do put simple things in place to keep my weekly routine in kind of check. I work out twice a week as a minimum, you know, I aim for three and then each beginning of each week, I confirm to my personal trainer, which of the three I can do this week. And a minimum has to be two. So I work out in the morning twice a week or three times a week. And that sets me on the right path mentally. You know, I do some boxing. I do some really kind of intense workouts because that's what my personality needs. I need that good. Ugh. You know, after the workout, I try my hardest and I succeed nine after 10 times to leave the office at five, get home, put my kids to bed and I wanna be there when they finish their bath, I'm there to read their stories. I'm there to put them in bed. And if I have to go back to my work and I have to open my laptop afterwards, so be it, I will happily do that and I'll catch up on everything that I didn't manage to do that. But spending couple of hours in, in the evening with my kids has got to be paramount because I don't wanna get to the end of 20, 22. And my kids have got a year older and I completely missed all of that. So it's about having small measurable things in place that don't feel overwhelming that you think know, I can do that. And if you do that, you see big effects and same what I said about alcohol free drinks. If you listen to this or you read something recently and it's kind in your mind thinking, oh, maybe I should go free. Maybe I should try. The easiest thing is just buy it somewhere. Well it one drink dry or go supermarket, just buy something and have it in the fridge. That's your good intention that you've intended to make the different choice next time and see how it goes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my best is enough. I think, ah, I've got, I've got a lot of work to do in this space, which I won't bother you with because the conversation is about you. But I love that phrase. It's it can be hard as with thing to accept them.
Speaker 3:For me, it's like I have changed, changed my mindset a lot since, you know, I get birth three little girls and I look around us in general in the world. And I think we, women are so capable sometimes a lot more capable than our male counterparts. We are astonishing at multitasking. We are so strong mentally. We are so strong physically. We're so strong. And yet we give ourselves such hard time, always the whole kind of, I remember talking to my husband and saying to him, cause I read something about imposter syndrome. And to me it was like a light bulb moment. I was like, this is it. This is how I've been feeling my whole life that I have now. I know what it is. And I said to my husband, like the other day, I read about a thing called imposter syndrome. And it now explained so much to me. And he just looked at me like with his blank eyes going imposter, what? Like, it just completely went over his head, you know? So we are so amazing at what we do yet. We are our biggest critics all the time. And when I look at my three girls, I think I don't want them to be like that. I really want them to go out and to the world and feel like I'm amazing. And I'm enough. I'm brilliant at what I do. And to end their day with, I did great. I absolutely smashed it today. And whether I did nothing or I did lows, I smashed it today. I was on my best game. And that for me is like the biggest motivation in pulling myself in every now and again, when I think when I start feeling that imposter syndrome and I'm not enough that I'm not doing enough, I look at them and I think, no, I am, and I'm gonna preach. You know, I'm gonna practice what I preach and go I'm enough. I did fantastic today.
Speaker 2:Gosh, so completely. Yeah, of course always, no, you make me laugh again. I once remember I turned to my husband on the so, and I said, babe, do you ever worry that you are just not a good parent or that, you know, you're of a parent? And he looked at me, it was as if my head around like 60 times and I'd started talking another language and he just was completely baffled. And he just went, no, not even once. He's like, no, he's like, I dunno what, and then he just carried it obviously just turned his, turned back to whatever he was watching on Netflix or whatever he was doing, but completely baffled. It had never ended his head. And yeah, I talked with myself with it on the daily. So yeah, I, I totally, it should, uh, gonna work harder on trying to stop that are you a reader? Erica, do you have time to read books? And if you do, could you tell me about a couple of books that you've loved?
Speaker 3:Uh, I think the one I read, I used read loads, but then I think all of the mums were that having kids, I like even last, I fell asleep at seven in my daughter's bed, and then I up at nine crawl into my own bed. And that was the end of my Sunday night, you know? And that's how it goes most of the times. Cause like by the time I put my three kids to bed with my husband's help, of course I'm just like in my pajamas ready to go sleep. So I think that the latest book I read on holiday was Michelle Obama's book and I dev vowed it and she's more inspirational. So I read her book now three times because I find it such an easy read. Wow. And I just, almost like almost like a self-help book. I just open any page or any chapter because I've read the book a few times now and I know the story, I know the storyline, I know what happens. I know the lifetime, but just open anywhere and you just read what happens and her responds to things and, and how it just shows throughout the book. Everything is about attitude and how you approach things and not focusing on it's so hard at the moment. And it means it's gonna be rubbish for the rest of my life. But instead of think it's really hard right now. And I'm gonna say to myself, the end is gonna be then, and I'm just gonna work towards that. I'm not gonna give into the panic. I'm not gonna take a short time view here. I'm gonna take a long term view. And I think what is that I'm trying to achieve in this hard moment and how is that gonna benefit me long term? So I think that that's the book that I most enjoyed reading recently.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I absolutely loved it too. I loved it too. I only read it once, but you're right. I would definitely benefit from reading it and dipping into it again. I loved how can she was about, um, her marriage, boy. She was candid about a lot of things, but I loved that. You know, she was open about, you know, cause obviously Barack Obama is pardon. Mm he's incredible. He's this amazing man. We look at the two of them. We're like, oh man, they've got a couple goals. Look at them. And she's like, actually it was not always like that. He was a massive pain in the neck. He was out. I love the bit when she said, if you don't get home by this time we are eating dinner. Anyway, whether you are here or not. So you have to step up to us like we are gonna do this. I would love to be a fly on the wall. And
Speaker 3:That's the reality. And doesn't that make you feel better? Cause it, it made me feel better about my family set that I'm not kind of portraying this happy family life. My husband is not home for dinner. All of a sudden it made me feel better about the fact that my husband wasn't tightening time for dinner because he was still working. You then talk to a girlfriend and you go, well, my husband didn't get home three times this week for dinner and they go really well. Mine didn't either. And you go, yeah, it's all out in the open. Everybody's the same.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Nobody's perfect. Even the Obamas, which I just thought
Speaker 3:Was, but you know, she just released, um, I think I haven't bought it for anyone yet, but I thought she just released a slightly edited version of that book aimed for younger girls. I think it's 14 plus maybe. Oh really? Yes. So I saw that in the workshop recently and I thought, this is it. This is the perfect gift for the young girls. You know, my nieces, anybody around me who I want to inspire, but I haven't read it yet. So I dunno how much edited it is and how much is kept in the book. But yeah, they've done that, which I think is fantastic.
Speaker 2:Oh, amazing. I'll check it out. Yeah. Sounds fantastic. Super role models for young women to look up to. Absolutely. My last question. Um, Erica, why do you think we're here? What's our purpose? What are we all trying to do here?
Speaker 3:I think make the place better. I think our generations before us have failed us in few areas like climate change environment, they, they have failed us. You know, the industrial revolution has brought a lot of innovation and a lot of kind of technology and other things that are good, but they have failed us in terms of looking after the place that we call home. So on a grand scheme of things, you know, we are here to make things better for the future generations. And it doesn't matter that somebody before us didn't do that well, we've got a chance to do better and on a kind of small, you know, I always think if I had a bad day or I wasn't a really great person yesterday, maybe I lost my temper at somebody. Maybe I shouted at my kids. Maybe I didn't get home at five o'clock if bedtime that I say that I religiously do every single day is a better day to make a change every single day. And I get, as I always say to my girls, be the change you want to see be the change you want to see. And when I first came to Dubai, there are many, many, many things that I love about this place, but there are a few things that I disagree with. There are some things that sit uncomfortable with me and they were one of the things that I remember saying to my husband, that's why I would leave Dubai. That's why I would go back to the UK and kind of bring my girls up there. And then I thought, no, because you know, I can be the change that I want to see here on a very, very small scale, but I can do something better. Right? So I'm super fortunate that I have two nannies who help me with my three kids. That's how I do it because they help me. And one of my nannies has a four year old little girl who lives with us. She goes to the same school as my little one does. And for me, that's the change that I wanna see. It's tiny, like, you know, take on the grand scheme of things what's happening in the world. There's so much badness in it, but my little role in one person's life, it's so paramount, you know, I'm making something good. So I don't know what the big purpose, but just look smaller. Like what can you do good today that will have a good impact on other people?
Speaker 2:No, I couldn't agree more. I think, and I've, I've always said this, like, I don't think you need to be like Oprah or Beyonce or bill gates to change the world. Right? You can change your world and the environment around you. I mean, especially look at what's going on in the world right now. It looks so hopeless and so awful. And I always come back to my community. How can I make a change in the people's lives around me? And it's not, you know, it doesn't have to be grand, huge gestures. It's, you know, smiling at people, knowing people's names, you know, asking them how their morning is looking people in the eyes, smiling, you know, every morning when I do my beach, very slow runs, you know, everybody, we all say good morning to one another. It's it's a very sort of, you know, cheery atmosphere, people, 98% people say, good morning. Some people look a bit startled, but you know, it's that connection with other people. There's so many ways to change the world and to change our worlds. It doesn't have to be is enormous.
Speaker 3:It's how you're telling me about this. It clearly, how has left positive impact on you that people say good morning. So you're telling me that people go for run and say good morning. And I'm always thinking I should be that person going on run. I wanna see these people who say good morning, like I'm in the fire, you know? So it's good. It's good. You're making a change already.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly. And what's super point to end on. That was, um, such a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much, Erica
Speaker 3:Pleasure. Thank you so much for having me really, really enjoyed talking to Kelly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me too. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for listening to the good intentions podcast. You can find links to issues and to books that we discussed in the show notes, and you can look for the podcast on Instagram. It's good intentions, UAE. Please do make sure you subscribe to the podcast. And if you enjoy this, I so appreciate a review on whatever platform you're using. It helps more people find out about the podcast. See you next time.